Spyderco Manix, over priced?

WadeF, this is not intended as a flame, I know you feel bad. I understand the frustration of not being able to support some local buisnesses due to finacial reasons. There is a guy on Broadway that is super friendly and has a decent stock but is damn overpriced, I only buy small stuff from him.
Bottom line is capaitalism works.
They can ask for x amount for the knife.
You can say "no thanks, Ill buy it from ______ intead."
If people are willing to pay $185 for a Manix, great for them. You dont have to do so because you have the advantage of having knowledge of the market and knowing where to get a better price. Dont forget about the Eddie Bauer Explorer outdoor crowd. You see alot of these in NYC. People who fancy themselves outdoorsey, have lots of disposable income, but absolutely no clue of what to do in the woods since they never actually go there.
They can sell the knife to someone else who is willing to pay that amount (as dumb as that may seem to you). Its these people who keep these overpriced stores in buisness so when I need a pair of socks or a bandanna in a pinch I dont have to order them.
The other scenario is that it really is priced too high which will eventually lead to them lowering the price or not selling the knife. Either way, they are not wrong and neither are you. You can both coexist peacefully.
 
Roodog said:
WadeF, this is not intended as a flame, I know you feel bad. I understand the frustration of not being able to support some local buisnesses due to finacial reasons. There is a guy on Broadway that is super friendly and has a decent stock but is damn overpriced, I only buy small stuff from him.
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I did buy a kitchen gadget off them, which I have one of that my wife and I like and paid a few dollars less for at a gourmet kitchen store that had high prices to begin with, because they did show me a few knives and I wanted to give them something for their time. Again, I think my main beef was them busting on Bladeforums which I thought was a bad move on their part. Even if they dont' like it, you don't insult something your customer enjoys.
 
My local knife shop -- River's Edge in Columbus, Ohio -- won't match internet prices (at least not yet) but they'll come close. I got my Manix from them for $125 -- just $10 more than New Graham. And I had the advantages of being able to handle it before buying, picking out the one I wanted, and knowing that I could return it without having to ship it to some other state. I'm pretty lucky -- River's Edge is the best of both worlds. The guys at River's Edge knew I was on this forum (which they respect) and looking at things on the internet, so they realized I could get lower prices. They brought up the subject themselves and said, hey, we want your business -- if you think a price is too high, let us know and we'll deal with you rather then lose your business to an internet dealer.

If River's Edge can afford to move off MSRP, I don't see why others couldn't. I mean, they rent a large space in a fairly upscale area.

A long time ago I used to sell cameras -- Nikon, Canon, Minolta, even some Leicas, etc. Every once in a while someone would come in and have me spend lots of time going over all of the details of a system, then say, well, thanks, but I'm going to order it from New York because they have the cheapest prices. Kinda steamed me. I mean, at least put some value on local support and expertise.

If the opportunity presents itself again say something like, look, I want to do business with you, but I can get this for $115 on the internet. I don't expect you to match that, but could you do a any better on the price? Doesn't cost a thing to ask!

I agree dissing the forum is not a great way to win a customer.
 
Wade, I generally do not get involved in these types of posts, but I want to assure you our products are not second class. All our knives come either direct from the manufacturer, authorized distributors. We do not sell seconds, pre-owned, or trade-ins. As for where to purchase, that is a personal decision.
md
 
Mike @ New Graham carries only first-rate knives. The customer service is also 100x better than any retail store I've been in.

What else can you ask for? (besides instant posession, which I am not addicted to.)

I vouch for him and his product.

-j

Michael Dye said:
Wade, I generally do not get involved in these types of posts, but I want to assure you our products are not second class. All our knives come either direct from the manufacturer, authorized distributors. We do not sell seconds, pre-owned, or trade-ins.
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Michael Dye said:
Wade, I generally do not get involved in these types of posts, but I want to assure you our products are not second class. All our knives come either direct from the manufacturer, authorized distributors. We do not sell seconds, pre-owned, or trade-ins. As for where to purchase, that is a personal decision.
md
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Thanks for the reply, and I figured you sold the exact same product as this other place, but for a much better price. I have had nothing but great service from you guys and the products have always been fine, so it's hard for me to give another place $70 more for the same thing. :)
 
If you went to country knives in intercourse pa, that's a family run place in the "country". They need to maximize their profit to stay alive...volume sales are probaby not possible. They charge MSRP and get it. They also depend upon the tourist crowd. By the way, plenty of people in Amish country know how to use the internet and do.
 
I understand your frustration. I have visited several camping etc. stores in my area and all charge much more than MSRP. For example, I saw a LM Crunch for $150.00 (MSRP is 97.00). I got one online for 60.00. I asked about the different models of LM and SAKs and they didn't know much about them at all.

They have every right to charge as much as they want, but I feel bad for the poor person who pays 2.5 times more (1.5x retail) because they simply don't know any better.
 
brownshoe said:
If you went to country knives in intercourse pa, that's a family run place in the "country". They need to maximize their profit to stay alive...volume sales are probaby not possible. They charge MSRP and get it. They also depend upon the tourist crowd. By the way, plenty of people in Amish country know how to use the internet and do.
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This place you speak of has a web site. They seem to charge retail prices on their website. I don't know why anyone would bother charging those kinds of prices online. Most businesses I know that have a store front and an online store charge lower prices on their websites, and then if someone comes into the store and quotes a price on the website the store would match that.

In the end I don't really care anymore. These stores can do whatever they want and I don't blame them for asking the retail price, but I might question why Spyderco would set the retail price at $185 when other places ask $115 (so it costs at least $115). That's a pretty big mark up from cost. I actually saw the Manix on knifecenter.com for $114.95 and they said the retail was $160, while Spyderco lists the retail price at $185. So either Spyderco or Knifecenter listed it wrong. I was just frustrated because I was excited to check out the place I was going to and was expecting better prices than they were offering so I could support them. I hate going into a place and taking up peoples' time and not buying anything. I left with a high tech rubber pot holder for the wife. :) It was only $9.00, but considering I bought another one previously for much less at a high end kitchen store I'm sure they made out okay on that purchase for the time they spent with me, which wasn't long as I didn't want to waste their time. :)
 
I could be wrong, but I think many manufacturers protect their retailers. They do this by setting the price (MSRP) high, and that's what you pay if you buy directly from them. However, the retailers have some room to move the price down depending on what their sales volumes are, overhead etc, etc, etc. Retailers need to meet their margins on the items they sell.

So the retailers know they will never have to compete with the manufacturer because the manufacturer will always sell it for their own MSRP. Except maybe for close-outs, seconds, special once a year clearance sales type stuff.

It would be kind of counter productive to carry a line of something only to have to compete with the manufacturer with pricing. No retailer could compete with that and would probably not carry that line very long if they couldn't make enough profit to stay in business or justify carrying that product.
 
yam said:
I could be wrong, but I think many manufacturers protect their retailers. They do this by setting the price (MSRP) high, and that's what you pay if you buy directly from them. However, the retailers have some room to move the price down depending on what their sales volumes are, overhead etc, etc, etc. Retailers need to meet their margins on the items they sell.
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Yes, and this is why I'm disturbed when retailers set their prices well ABOVE MSRP.

-j
 
biogon said:
Yes, and this is why I'm disturbed when retailers set their prices well ABOVE MSRP.

-j
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Or even at MSRP. Why sell it for the same price as the manufacturer? You would think they'd be a little less.

As far as protecting dealers, I'm surprised the knife companies don't have a MSAP (minimum advertised price) meaning if Spyderco sells the Manix to their dealers for $105.00 and their MSRP is $185, they could set the MSAP to $145.00. So if an online site can only advertise the knife at $145, instead of $115. People would have to call the dealer for a better price. Sony does this with their dealers. If we put our prices on the Internet we'd lose our dealership. This way if the lowest advertised price you see is $145 and then you walk into a retail shop and they have it for $185 you might not freak at that price. Also if you say "So and so has it for $145" the retailer can match that price and still make $40.
 
WadeF said:
Or even at MSRP. Why sell it for the same price as the manufacturer? You would think they'd be a little less.

As far as protecting dealers, I'm surprised the knife companies don't have a MSAP (minimum advertised price) meaning if Spyderco sells the Manix to their dealers for $105.00 and their MSRP is $185, they could set the MSAP to $145.00. So if an online site can only advertise the knife at $145, instead of $115. People would have to call the dealer for a better price. Sony does this with their dealers. If we put our prices on the Internet we'd lose our dealership. This way if the lowest advertised price you see is $145 and then you walk into a retail shop and they have it for $185 you might not freak at that price. Also if you say "So and so has it for $145" the retailer can match that price and still make $40.
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Considering the overhead in a retail store, how could a dealer honestly sell for less than MSRP? Sure, you can get it from the manufacturer for the same price, but you can't handle it first, you can't compare it to other knives, you can't ask questions (as easily anyway), etc.

Besides, if everyone sells something for less than MSRP, why is it worth MSRP at all? If something has an MSRP of $200, but everyone sells it for $100, is it really worth $200? Nope, because I'll bet you'll never sell one at $200. Worth is defined as how mch someone will actually pay for something, not what you ask for it. If I put a price tag of $10,000 on my Sebenza, does that mean it's worth $10,000? Not until someone buys it.

If you ask me, Surefire has it right. You sell our product for MSRP, or we quit selling to you. Don't like it? Tough! Plus, why would you discount a product that is hard to keep in stock anyway? A $200 Surefire is worth $200 because you can't find anywhere to buy it for less. If you want it, you pay $200, no if's, and's, or but's about it.
 
Steven Roos said:
If you ask me, Surefire has it right. You sell our product for MSRP, or we quit selling to you. Don't like it? Tough! Plus, why would you discount a product that is hard to keep in stock anyway? A $200 Surefire is worth $200 because you can't find anywhere to buy it for less. If you want it, you pay $200, no if's, and's, or but's about it.
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The MAP works for companies like Rolex, Surefire, Hasselblad, etc. They have an exclusive name and (relatively) limited production and the demand outstrips the source. Moreover, they've somehow convinced consumers that they offer something that their competitors don't, whether it's features or value or cachet or reputation. (In some cases, yes. In other cases, no.)

I'm not sure all companies can do this and get away with it.

Personally, I hate the MAP... it's an artifical price floor, it reduces competition, and it's generally not free-market-ism. If you aren't a Rolex, Leica, or Surefire, you may not be able to pull it off once a competitor puts out their equivalent product at a lower price.

It certainly keeps your image nice and high, but retailers may or may not like it. It doesn't benefit the retailer (who would rather ship volume over margin) and it certainly doesn't benefit the consumer.

If you constantly improve your methods, make your product for less, and you don't pass it on to the consumer, there's a value gap there.

Then either you lower your MAP and look stupid (and no one trusts your MAP anymore -- they will keep waiting for you to lower it again) or, the option I prefer, you die.

-j
 
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