Spyderco Mule Team Details

It will be interesting when the 13C26 version comes out and everyone finds out that the 13C26 does everything 52100 does but a little better and with good corrosion resistance (assuming it is heat treated to the same hardness). And then more interesting will be seeing the differences and benefits between edge stability and wear resistance when steels with greater wear resistance are released. I don't know if the mule has an edge that is thin enough to see the benefits of edge stability though. Also, no one will see the benefits of edge stability if all they do is slice rope with a coarse sharpening.
 
Larrin said:
Also, no one will see the benefits of edge stability if all they do is slice rope with a coarse sharpening.
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Larrin,

What I like to do with new factory edges is food prep first....tomatoes, carrots...basic salad, and then steak, or fish, like salmon.

After wearing a new factory edge down to wear it needs tuning, it becomes time for cardboard, and rope, and tape, and wood carving...then after a tuning, when necessary, back to steak, potatoes and hair....shaving and splitting.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
why is 52100 the first steel for a mule?

Fine steel, lousy corrosion resistance.
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On point one, when asked, the masses of us clamored for 52100.

On points two and three: yessir and sacrifice an apple to it before extensive use. I have steel more reactive than 52100 in my kitchen that laughs off pineapple and eggplant if it eats an apple after each sharpening.

I know you know that trick and more, STeven, but the power of oxides compelled me. :o
 
thombrogan said:
On point one, when asked, the masses of us clamored for 52100.

On points two and three: yessir and sacrifice an apple to it before extensive use. I have steel more reactive than 52100 in my kitchen that laughs off pineapple and eggplant if it eats an apple after each sharpening.

I know you know that trick and more, STeven, but the power of oxides compelled me. :o
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Ok Thom, please educate the ignorant about the benefits of applejuice on high carbon blades :confused: will applesauce work :p
 
thombrogan said:
On point one, when asked, the masses of us clamored for 52100.

On points two and three: yessir and sacrifice an apple to it before extensive use. I have steel more reactive than 52100 in my kitchen that laughs off pineapple and eggplant if it eats an apple after each sharpening.

I know you know that trick and more, STeven, but the power of oxides compelled me. :o
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Well, Thom...I usually use the standard ammonia to neutralize reactions...but try to KEEP my carbon users shiny, rather than developing a layer of patina, which am afraid, is fighting windmills....the smart move is to let it happen.

Unfortunately, am of the "shiny is good" school.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
jaislandboy said:
Ok Thom, please educate the ignorant about the benefits of applejuice on high carbon blades :confused: will applesauce work :p
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Whatchutalkinbout, Brian? :confused: Like many popular foods on the planet, apples have some acids in their juices. Those acids combine with ambient oxygen (found in air and water), iron, and even alloying elements with their outermost valence 'shell' of electrons to compounds known as oxides. Depending on the content of the acids and alloy, the oxide layer can be anything from a dull grey or black to a prismatic starburst rich with indigo, azure, and various golden and copper hues.

So slicing up an apple exposes the surface of the Mule steel to a mild acid and creates a thin oxide barrier which helps prevent further oxidation (i.e. rusting). The acids should be neutralized, though, as rusting can occur. Also, foods with stronger acids (pumpkins, pineapples, pecks of pickled peppers) will often create a stronger reaction and prettier oxide layer (though neutralizing will be needed more quickly to prevent orange, pitting rust to occur.

Kohai999 said:
Well, Thom...I usually use the standard ammonia to neutralize reactions...but try to KEEP my carbon users shiny, rather than developing a layer of patina, which am afraid, is fighting windmills....the smart move is to let it happen.

Unfortunately, am of the "shiny is good" school.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Shiny is very good. Smaller surface area for crud and corrosion to accumulate and less places for strain to ruin an edge. Does the entire knife need to be shiny from tip to pommel? Would forcing a patina on the blade and then buffing the edge up to mirror work for you?
 
thombrogan said:
Shiny is very good. Smaller surface area for crud and corrosion to accumulate and less places for strain to ruin an edge. Does the entire knife need to be shiny from tip to pommel? Would forcing a patina on the blade and then buffing the edge up to mirror work for you?
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The knife doesn't NEED to be of one finish or another....really. It is the maddening lack of uniformity in the finish that drives me bonkers....really can't go for case coloring, either, due to the same issues.

The resultant surface coloring for many is a)either a non-issue, or b) a desired result of the process. For me it is neither.

Aesthetics in EVERYTHING is of paramount priority with me....which has placed, and continues to put Sal and I on fairly opposite ends of the visual spectrum.....performance is everything to Sal...I respect it...but visuals are probably, and sadly, as important, and in some cases, superior in importance to me.

Sal told me more than once, that when Spyderco designs an attractive knife, it is not the first priority in the process.

I'm sure that the performance based crowd here is getting ready to vote me out of the club.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
thombrogan said:
Whatchutalkinbout, Brian? :confused: Like many popular foods on the planet, apples have some acids in their juices. Those acids combine with ambient oxygen (found in air and water), iron, and even alloying elements with their outermost valence 'shell' of electrons to compounds known as oxides. Depending on the content of the acids and alloy, the oxide layer can be anything from a dull grey or black to a prismatic starburst rich with indigo, azure, and various golden and copper hues.

So slicing up an apple exposes the surface of the Mule steel to a mild acid and creates a thin oxide barrier which helps prevent further oxidation (i.e. rusting). The acids should be neutralized, though, as rusting can occur. Also, foods with stronger acids (pumpkins, pineapples, pecks of pickled peppers) will often create a stronger reaction and prettier oxide layer (though neutralizing will be needed more quickly to prevent orange, pitting rust to occur.



Shiny is very good. Smaller surface area for crud and corrosion to accumulate and less places for strain to ruin an edge. Does the entire knife need to be shiny from tip to pommel? Would forcing a patina on the blade and then buffing the edge up to mirror work for you?
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thanks Thom, now I got rest easier tonite :)
 
Hi STeven,

When I first began discussing the subject with the steel junky's, there was a small but positive reaction. Many had suggested a high carbon steel as a good base or beginning material. O1, 5160, 52100, etc.

We didn't know if there would be enough interest to bother to turn on the machines.

We created a shape and size in the discussion of the project. Function being the first consideration :p Low cost being the 2nd. It's not a profit product, but many foundries require very large orders (2K lbs or more), which was too much for short runs.

Some of my bladesmith buddies, Ed Schempp, JD Smith, spoke highly of 52100. Ball bearing steels have similar requirements to edges. I had been forging 52100 and felt it could be a good 1st steel. The next rub was in finding sheet stock. I had always forged rod. Chuck Bybee camed to the rescue with a source for sheet 52100 and the test was on.

The project took much longer than originally anticipated (surprize surprize :o).

My test piece is developing a patina, not intentional. I cut everything, wash and dry only. I've not tried the "apple oxide" ritual, but I think I 'll give it a try (Thanx Thom).

Assuming there will be follow up runs, I've got a number of materials already being chased. Since they take longer to get and process that thought, I felt with several "in the works", we had a better chance of some consistent delivery. I'd like to add some damascus pieces (Thomas, Schempp) but I'll need a more accurate quantity before ordering steel.

I selected 600 pcs as a guess as to interest. This run should give us a better idea of the quantity to make.

sal
 
Kohai999 said:
You mean for having the balls/insanity to do it, or for successfully pulling it off?
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The insanity/balls part. I never saw the knives in question; just remembered some spirited discussions; so I wouldn't know if you succeeded or not.

jaislandboy said:
thanks Thom, now I got rest easier tonite
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People sleep peacefully at night because violent men stand ready to pare apples for snacks. ~George Orwell

The apple trick was shared by a gent who calls himself "DwarvenChef" so he deserves credit for any orange, pitting rust it spares.
 
Well I just got an e-mail notifying me that my mule team knife has shipped, and I'm already excited again about all of this just as much as when it was first proposed. I hope that any exotic steels used in the future don't push the per unit price above $80-$100, or if they will that the high dollar ones aren't all in a row. I hope these sell well enough to merit future releases and I'm glad that we're all getting a chance to have some fun with this.

Now does anyone know if any of the talented craftsmen on this board are planning on making switchable handle scales or sheaths for these blades??
 
Now does anyone know if any of the talented craftsmen on this board are planning on making switchable handle scales or sheaths for these blades??
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Mine's being shipped also, and it probably will be joined by future Mules - so I would also be interested in sources for switchable sheaths and handles for thses knives.
 
Mine is on the way. I truly appreciate the pricing on this blade. Makes me look forward to the next issue and the whole series as doable. Would be real nice if the kinks got ironed out so that all of us who signed up or bought one would get e-mail notification when the next one is good to go. This one was more like an Indiana Jones quest with the outcome always hanging by a thread.

I too hope that some enterprising crafters come up with appropriate sheaths and handles.

:cool:
 
I am Scott with Scotts Sheaths, We produce Boltoron sheaths for many diffrent styles of knives. I am able to provide a Mule sheath with or without a handle. We have designed one that will fit with or without handle. I do feel that the Mule sheath With a handle works better to press sheath around the blade. Sheaths will be interchagable for future releases of same blade Mules. I havent heard of anyone producing handles, but I would think if a person get a set, they should interchange. scgere@aol.com
 
Scott Gere said:
We produce Boltoron sheaths for many diffrent styles of knives.
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Scott, I have never heard of Boltoron and a Dogpile search turns up only three hits, none of them helpful. Could you give an explanation of why you choose to work in this material, how it compares with better known materials such as Kydex, and what are the upsides and downsides to it for the end user? Thanks.
 
Luckily I heard about these knives on the Wilderness & Survival forum here otherwise I would have missed out on them!!!! I got the e-mail that mine shipped today and am excited about trying out the steel. I am interested in other variations as then it gives a better comparison of the qualities of different steels in the same package (too bad about not being a wharnie though).
I would also second a notification system for future entries as I always forget to check manufacturers websites and forums.

Thanks for these Sal!!
 
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