Spyderco Ocelot?

When you put it that way it makes alot of sense, i get what you mean. Why pay all that money for G10 and paw prints when you can have a similar knife for way less. For me its just a feel thing, I did not like the centofante in my hand as much as i thought I would. And I would pay more for a knife that feels good(if it does havent held it yet) in my hand than one that doest. I agree though that g10 handles and paw prints dont add up to as much as thier askin but they'll sell them none the less, only way to stop goudging if you can call it that is to stop buyin the product.
 
I'm sort of in the same boat as Artfully Martial on the Ocelot. Don't get me wrong, I am quite the Spydieknut:D I have over a dozen Spydies. Up here, the Ocelot will probably be in the $225 - $250 CDN range, so it's VERY serious coin from my pocket - well, pretty serious:) I already have a Cento III and I do carry it a lot but I also spent about $100 CDN, give or take, for it. I guess touching/fondling will be the ultimate test to see just how much different it is to the Cento III. I also have a Paramilitary which falls in to the Ocelot category price wise. I could have probably got my Para way cheaper online, but BUT I think the Ocelot is targeted more toward a gentleman's type blade. In this price range, for me, I'm thinking that a "just because" isn't enough justification. How much I use it is going to be a a critical key and right for the moment, I just can't see it. Mind you, I said that about my para as well, I don't use it all that much:) Will I own one - probably, just not right away. It's priced in an area that ordering it online, on the assumption I can probably get it below retail doesn't do it for me. Too many other options out there. This weekend, for instance, I picked up a Gray Caly Jr. NIB(my second one now:D), BM530, and Camillus Blaze for around the $300 CDN mark - I figured I got reasonable prices on the Caly Jr and Blaze, but a tad high on the BM530 - but then Rowland at Target was the only one that I could find that actually had one that I could hold and play with. An Al-Mar Sere 2K is also in that price range and I want one of those a LOT more than an Ocelot. Rowland mentioned he had some on order so I'm really hopin' they don't show up for a few weeks - my "allowance" really took a hit:D

- gord
 
Well, I don't want to give the impression that I feel that the ocelot is a bad deal, in fact, relative to companies other than Benchmade, I'm certain it's a good deal. My argument only works within Spyderco's own lineup or maybe Benchmade's.

And of course, that "feel" thing, which I can definitely relate to with my para (very hit or miss knife, apparently), is pretty all important and very subjective.

I think there are two separate debates going on with VG10 though. Some are debating that it's comparable or even better than S30V (or that it's not). The other one is that VG10 is not as valuable currency wise, regardless of performance, as S30V, and yet the price for it is pretty comparable to that of S30V and it shouldn't be.
 
I guess it's all in the eye of the buyer.

I don't see how anyone would pay $125 for the Ocelot when they can get a Benchmade 720, 732 Ares, 710HS, Spyderco Paramilitary, Spyderco Impala, all for less than $110.

But then again, I don't get paying over $100 for a Spyderco Kopa either.
 
I don't know, I find many of the arguments here rather hard to relate to: On person thinks the added $15 for the paw prints and the VG-10 steel too much (the BM models listed have "only" 154CM blades or M2 blades. While M2 seems a very good blade steel, it is a pretty cheap bladesteel as well and we seem to be talking price not performance here), the next points out that you can get a Native with S30V steel for under $50....

I think it is pretty safe to say that the performance differences between the better bladesteels are small and to some extent a matter of personal preference and very difficult to put a price on. So the argument "it has only xxx bladesteel" is really pointless. It is true, that certain bladesteels are more expensive in material cost and, more importantly, in grinding and S30V is certainly among those steels but that doesn't make other bladesteels necessarily inferior. D2, A2 and M2 are all large quantity tool steels that are cheap in comparsion to the more specialized bladesteels such as VG-10 and S30V.

The premium paid for G-10 should be pretty obvious as well. It needs to be CNC machined and than ground for fit and finish and it is a pretty nasty material to work with. FRN on the other hand is mass produced by injection...dirt cheap in comparison. If you don't see much of a performance difference, you are in luck, but you can not honestly expect a G-10 model to come anywhere near the price of a FRN model. To compare those is again IMO nonsensical.

Lastly, bulk is to be considered. The reason that the Native dropped in price (and not only for Walmart but in general) is because the numbers ordered by Walmart allows Spyderco to make the Native in larger number and I am very pleased but not very surprised to see that Spyderco is passing those savings on to the ELU. I once asked Sal on this forum why and how they are able to sell the Salt knives for so cheap, considering that it has a Ti clip, specially rolled lockbar, a steel that isn't exactly run of the mill and specially treated hardwear. The answer was simply: "It doesn't cost us more to make it, so why should we jack up the price artificially?"

I guess the argument should run along two seperate lines: 1) is this a fair pricing considering the materials and the work and the quantities involved or is it overpriced. 2) Am I willing to pay the price or do I invest my money in something where I perceive to get a similar performance for much less money.

Sledgehammer: I don't think this is taking it personal, but your first post essentially said (at least this is the way I read it) that the Ocelot is overpriced (you said that it is hard to see why the Ocelot should cost that much, ...which really isn't all that hard to see), and I think that is very unfair to say. Had you said that you rather spend your money on a Native, Centofante etc. because you think you get essentially the same performance for a lot less money, I would have never spoken up.

After all, it was Spyderco who essentially pioneered affordable high quality with top end blade steels and this is still where they make their money can you blame them that they occasionally want to make something playful, artsy, and a bit extravagant, not matter what it costs?
 
For me it is hard to see as I don't think that VG-10 is better than 154CM. I think 154CM is better and it's made in the USA.
 
I assume that VG-10 is Japanese steel, right? I have three Benchmade knives with 154CM steel and I have never had better blades. And I have a Skirmish with S30V. Both of these steels are very easy to sharpen, get very sharp and stay sharp. I prefer American made.

As for Spyderco, several times I have tried to buy a Spyderco until I looked at them a while. What Spyderco nuts just can't seem to understand is that to some of us out here Spyerco is just plain FUGLY!!!
 
Errr, does it matter where it's made in, the steel? You keep saying that xyz steels are better because they're made in the USA, any reason? What about Hitachi's fine line of ATS steels and ZDP?
 
The reason it matters is that I, my kids and my family and friends have to make a living in the USA, not China, Japan or Taiwan. Sixty years ago China was our good friend and Japan our deadly enemy. That has all changed around but it can change again. The only constant is if we are to be taken care of, we must take care of ourselves. Buying American does that.
 
I don't mind buying Japanese or Taiwanese stuff especially, but I do give preference to USA products. I try to avoid Chinese products.
 
Buy American, get an inferior product at a higher price, for the most part, since many "American" made products are not made in the US. Crucible is a respectable company, so this does not apply to them
 
Crucible happens to be the company whose steel I buy. When you buy Chinese you are paying for rockets that one day you may get to see, or at least feel.
 
I don't find that American products are inferior to my Japanese purchases. Sometimes they offer different features, however, which will pull me one way or another. I also don't find that they're more expensive.

In regards to the relative cost of Chinese and American products, I'd like to note that this may not be a fair comparison, as I'm betting American labor could do it for a similar price if we disregarded human rights altogether.
 
spyken said:
I like the Ocelot. it doesn't matter if it's S30V or VG10...as my own experience is that Spyderco's VG10 outperforms the S30V. This is different from S30V as heat treated by the custom makers. I think the Japanese have the HT for VG10 down pat.
Click to expand...

My thoughts as well. I like the Ocelot. Those of us who miss the Spyderco Wegners, can't get the Blade-Tech Wegner in the small Spyderco Wegner size, and waited long for the various prototypes of the Ocelot to morph into the final cat, are willing to pay a smalll premium for a knife that we like.
 
The folks in Golden try hard. They are among the most skilled production knifemakers in America. However, in my sincere opinion, they have a LONG ways to go before they get on the same level with the craftsmen that Spyderco does business with in Seki Japan.

Those boys have knifemaking down cold.

Spyderco's Seki-made knives are nearly custom in fit and finish, yet they are sensibly priced. For example, the new Walker sprint Spydie. Where else can you get such an incredible knife for the money? Bargain of the year in the gent's knife category, imo. Smooth action, solid lockup, cuts like a laser, custom level fit and finish, sleek grind lines, etc. Nothing like that coming from the Golden plant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for buying American. But when a better product comes from overseas and it costs the same (or less) than the American made counterpart, let's be realistic.

I'm walking out of the store with the Seki knife.
 
Where did the VG10 Spyderflys come from? The steel leads me to think Japan, but balis supposedly have to be assembled here and...well, it's complicated. It has lots of cosmetic flaws.
 
Spyderco did import some VG-10 barstock. I assume they used it up with the Spyderflies before switching to 440C.
 
nolan raborn said:
I assume that VG-10 is Japanese steel, right? I have three Benchmade knives with 154CM steel and I have never had better blades. And I have a Skirmish with S30V. Both of these steels are very easy to sharpen, get very sharp and stay sharp. I prefer American made.

As for Spyderco, several times I have tried to buy a Spyderco until I looked at them a while. What Spyderco nuts just can't seem to understand is that to some of us out here Spyerco is just plain FUGLY!!!
Click to expand...

We do understand. Not a problem. Enjoy your Benchmades. They're nice knives. More Spydies for us.
 
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