Spyderco pm2 ouchie

marcus52AR said:
I think I'm just going to send it in. Even of I figure out a way to get the screw out, I'm going to need to source a new one.

Does anyone know if spyderco installs aftermarket scales? Also does better quality hardware exist for the PM2?
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I wonder if STR could do this.

https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/strs-backyard-knifeworks.810/

It looks like he does pocket clips on PM2, and I don’t know what else. If not, maybe he would have a suggestion.

I sent him an SAK to customize and was happy with the outcome and found him very helpful.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
+1 on the sodering iron to loosen loc-tite ... I would try a screw extractor first if you have one ... but another method I have used and had good luck with ... find a nut as close to the same size as the screw head ... use JB Weld to cement the nut to the screw and use a socket to remove the screw ... it has saved me from damaging the scale or surface of whatever you're removing the stripped screw from.
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Sometimes but not always you can use some gel super glue or a drop of threadlocker to glue the torx bit in the screw. It really depends on how bad it is.
 
Danke42 said:
Just the act of machining the screws work hardens them.

What's the detail on the heat treatment claims you've seen?
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Here's some for home use, just to show they can be heat treated for improved performance.

I will try and find the website I saw supplying them specifically for knives, and the custom maker site that described using them (I forget which ones ot was right now.)

I will post those when I get home.

Edit: here is another good thread with some good info in the mean time.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-screws-and-hardware.1526102/
 
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Lapedog said:
Here's some for home use, just to show they can be heat treated for improved performance.

I will try and find the website I saw supplying them specifically for knives, and the custom maker site that described using them (I forget which ones ot was right now.)

I will post those when I get home.

Edit: here is another good thread with some good info in the mean time.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-screws-and-hardware.1526102/
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Yeah that thread also says the hardware isn't heat treated.

A heat treated hardware sales pitch sounds a lot more like "there's a sucker born every minute" situation than a real world benefit for a pocket knife.
 
Danke42 said:
Yeah that thread also says the hardware isn't heat treated.

A heat treated hardware sales pitch sounds a lot more like "there's a sucker born every minute" situation than a real world benefit for a pocket knife.
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I know that knives are generally not using heat treated fasteners, that was my whole point.
 
Danke42 said:
It kinda sounds like that 's the opposite of what you said.
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Yeah I said "poorly heat treated" when I guess I should have said "not heat treated at all"

My point was more that the companies are using and touting top quality steel in their blades, but are not using top quality steel in their fasteners.

I didn't know if they were not heat treating them at all or just poorly.

The point was more that I wanted better quality scews (how ever they achieve that)
 
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Lapedog said:
Yeah I said "poorly heat treated" when I guess I should have said "not heat treated at all"

My point was more that the companies are using and touting top quality steel in their blades, but are not using top quality steel in their fasteners.

I didn't know if they were not heat treating them at all or just poorly.

The point was more that I wanted better quality scews (how ever they achieve that)
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There is nothing poor quality about the fasteners.

They're a grade of stainless steel that's work hardened to a normal standard. The don't corrode which is the real important feature for a part like this.

Super hard fasteners that break because hard = brittle are a nightmare to remove. It's easy to grab stainless steel and pull it out of the liner. Some kind of case hardened steel screw that has it's head snapped off by a person with calibrated elbows will either write off the knife or need an hour or more in the machine shop to try and remove the part.
 
Danke42 said:
There is nothing poor quality about the fasteners.

They're a grade of stainless steel that's work hardened to a normal standard. The don't corrode which is the real important feature for a part like this.

Super hard fasteners that break because hard = brittle are a nightmare to remove. It's easy to grab stainless steel and pull it out of the liner. Some kind of case hardened steel screw that has it's head snapped off by a person with calibrated elbows will either write off the knife or need an hour or more in the machine shop to try and remove the part.
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First of all I am not saying they should heat treat them to a hardness where it is detrimental to the screw. Why would I suggest they heat treat the screws in a way that makes them worse.

Secondly, no, clearly many companies do not use high quality screws. Otherwise why do Spydeco screws stip so often, and yet I've never damaged a screw on my CRKs. (Often from one use, just moving the clip. Spydie did not put red locktite on the clip screws because they intended it to be moved)

Obviously part of it is CRKs seem to have particularly deep slots for the allen key to fit in. Even taking that into account, how do you explain that so many people have trouble with stripped screws from so many companies? I almost never hear of stripped CRK screws and haven't experienced it. Clearly CRk is using better fasteners and others are not.

Also you said "screws are not heat treated" so when I show you screws are being heat treated for other industries such as construction you answer "it's probably snake oil"

Look bottom line is I want better fasteners. I'm sure that is a sentiment we can agree on
 
Lapedog said:
First of all I am not saying they should heat treat them to a hardness where it is detrimental to the screw. Why would I suggest they heat treat the screws in a way that makes them worse.

Secondly, no, clearly many companies do not use high quality screws. Otherwise why do Spydeco screws stip so often, and yet I've never damaged a screw on my CRKs. (Often from one use, just moving the clip. Spydie did not put red locktite on the clip screws because they intended it to be moved)

Obviously part of it is CRKs seem to have particularly deep slots for the allen key to fit in. Even taking that into account, how do you explain that so many people have trouble with stripped screws from so many companies? I almost never hear of stripped CRK screws and haven't experienced it. Clearly CRk is using better fasteners and others are not.

Also you said "screws are not heat treated" so when I show you screws are being heat treated for other industries such as construction you answer "it's probably snake oil"

Look bottom line is I want better fasteners. I'm sure that is a sentiment we can agree on
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I would suspect that the knife company in Colorado makes way more knives than the knife company in Idaho. Then I would suspect that not as many people swap the scales on Idaho knives. More of each means more problems. It's just common sense.

And then last from all the comments about putting a knife in boiling water etc. I'd suspect some of the folks trying to take the knives apart have more enthusiasm than experience. Not to throw those folks under the bus but in decades of taking stuff apart I've seen a few things that never should have happened.

Watching a guy on YouTube with a knife that's been taken apart 50 times and only the "good" edit is posted is going to lead some folks into hurt world.

And when those folks arrive in hurt world and start complaining it was the tool or to the object that caused the woes it's too often not the case. Again; not to throw anyone specific to the wolves.

And last when you say you "showed me heat treated screws in other industries" you didn't. It's impossible to make any sort of comment about that because it's a pig in a poke. The screws used are ATSM and it's already been noted why over the lifetime of a typical knife a softer screw is a better idea.

If you can post up detailed info on other knife companies that are legitimately using heat treated screws feel free to.
 
Well my first hand experience is in line with others that most knives come with screws that strip easily. So it is not like I am just repeating other people's experiences.

Also if anything CRKs get pulled apart more than most knives as people know that they are built in a way where they will go back together perfectly each time.

Lets say not one company is using heat treated screws that doesn't mean they shouldn't if it will improve their product. If switching to heat treated fasteners will mean less stripping then I am all for it.

And yet you made me go look so here it is.

https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/product/2-56-stainless-steel-screws

Please scroll down to video of them comparing heat treated screws (for knives) vs non heat treated.
 
Lapedog said:
Well my first hand experience is in line with others that most knives come with screws that strip easily. So it is not like I am just repeating other people's experiences.

Also if anything CRKs get pulled apart more than most knives as people know that they are built in a way where they will go back together perfectly each time.

Lets say not one company is using heat treated screws that doesn't mean they shouldn't if it will improve their product. If switching to heat treated fasteners will mean less stripping then I am all for it.

And yet you made me go look so here it is.

https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/product/2-56-stainless-steel-screws

Please scroll down to video of them comparing heat treated screws (for knives) vs non heat treated.
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So no mention of who uses those? No real world example of the effect of a bit on the flats in the head on a non-treated bolt vs. the ones they sell?

I was literally filled with joy when I saw the scientific rigor of that test with the dial gauge that lacking a memory needle and the way he put those pliers into exactly the same spot every time. Just what I want to know when sourcing lubrication for my legless reptile.
 
Danke42 said:
So no mention of who uses those? No real world example of the effect of a bit on the flats in the head on a non-treated bolt vs. the ones they sell?

I was literally filled with joy when I saw the scientific rigor of that test with the dial gauge that lacking a memory needle and the way he put those pliers into exactly the same spot every time. Just what I want to know when sourcing lubrication for my legless reptile.
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Umm tons of makers use those screws fom Alpha Knife. They are a very popular site for custom makers.

If you really think that there aren't makers who use these screws just because I haven't taken the time to go through all the various knife makers sites I've visited, well then I already know you are giving a dishonest arguement for the sake of arguing. Alpha knife supply is a huge supplier for all levels of knife makers. I'm sure if no makers were buying their heat treated screws then they wouldn't be selling them.

1st: You claim "screws are not heat treated" so I find you proof, to which you reply "it's snake oil"

2nd: You try and say "well knife makers aren't using them" so I find the link to Alpha knife supply.

3rd: You say also that "well you haven't linked a knife MAKER, that advertises using them" I remember reading it just like I did the last time. If I spent the time to look for it I would find it just like the last two. This is because I remember reading it so I know it is out there, while you seem to be trying to imply that I am making it up.

Have you forgotton you own arguements? "They do not heat treat screws." "Heat treating screws is detrimental to their performance" and most recently "ok but no one uses them in knives."

Again EVEN IF that was true and no knife makers were using heat treated fasteners; IF heat treated fasteners would be of better quality then I would say I would want them to be used ideally.

But fine I will find the link to a few makers who claim to use heat treated screws when I feel like going back and reading through a bunch of websites to find them.

Better yet, save me the trouble. Why don't you link me to some info that shows explicitly that NO knife makers are using heat treated screws. Also would like to see some info that shows heat treating screws is detrimental to their performance.

I'm sure that is what they are doing with these expensive machines, decreasing the quality of their screws via heat treating. ;)



This guy wanted decreased perfomance in his screws so badly he set up a home shop.


Honestly I don't care how they go about getting or producing better fasteners that strip less. I still would like to see them using screws that are better quality.

Edit: btw no hard feelings please. I just want to debate not argue.
 
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Deeper pockets with more contact area would be fine by me. I wouldn't be suprised if CRK and spyderco fasteners were the same strength/hardness, just much deeper on the CRK. You can put a ton of torque on those with no worries.
 
Lapedog said:
Umm tons of makers use those screws fom Alpha Knife. They are a very popular site for custom makers.

If you really think that there aren't makers who use these screws just because I haven't taken the time to go through all the various knife makers sites I've visited, well then I already know you are giving a dishonest arguement for the sake of arguing. Alpha knife supply is a huge supplier for all levels of knife makers. I'm sure if no makers were buying their heat treated screws then they wouldn't be selling them.

1st: You claim "screws are not heat treated" so I find you proof, to which you reply "it's snake oil"

2nd: You try and say "well knife makers aren't using them" so I find the link to Alpha knife supply.

3rd: You say also that "well you haven't linked a knife MAKER, that advertises using them" I remember reading it just like I did the last time. If I spent the time to look for it I would find it just like the last two. This is because I remember reading it so I know it is out there, while you seem to be trying to imply that I am making it up.

Have you forgotton you own arguements? "They do not heat treat screws." "Heat treating screws is detrimental to their performance" and most recently "ok but no one uses them in knives."

Again EVEN IF that was true and no knife makers were using heat treated fasteners; IF heat treated fasteners would be of better quality then I would say I would want them to be used ideally.

But fine I will find the link to a few makers who claim to use heat treated screws when I feel like going back and reading through a bunch of websites to find them.

Better yet, save me the trouble. Why don't you link me to some info that shows explicitly that NO knife makers are using heat treated screws. Also would like to see some info that shows heat treating screws is detrimental to their performance.

I'm sure that is what they are doing with these expensive machines, decreasing the quality of their screws via heat treating. ;)



This guy wanted decreased perfomance in his screws so badly he set up a home shop.


Honestly I don't care how they go about getting or producing better fasteners that strip less. I still would like to see them using screws that are better quality.

Edit: btw no hard feelings please. I just want to debate not argue.
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The other thing that's an unknown is what standard those hardened bolts are vs. the hardware used on production knives. Is there a material sheet on how those screws are processed? Are they simply work hardened like all the others?

If the bolts are that soft they'll be stripping out during production and causing delivery issues. And dealer will be getting knives with bad bolts that will have to go back to the factory causing more headaches especially with the knives made outside of North America.

Creating that sort of headache for themselves is something no maker will do.

To the OP, did you follow the instructions from Spyderco on how to remove the screws?

To the OP, did you follow the instructions from Spyderco on how to remove the screws?

No hard feelings either but there is an unfortunate habit that annoys me when people seize onto buzz words like heat treated.
 
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soldering iron works vary well on red lock-tite,try to cover your scales to protect from heat though,until i used this trick i beat up my knifes and striped lots of scews,hope this helps.
 
CRK makes 10,000-15,000 knives a year Spyderco probably makes that many a quarter. I thought I read somewhere that CRK makes their own HW which would be entirely possible for their production capacity but not Spyderco's.
 
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