Spyderco PMII S30V or S35VN?

[Paul Dragosljvich]

I am very tempted to buy a PMII off ebay for $170. I'm not completely sold on the knife yet, as it's a pretty large blade to carry around..but if I do decide to purchase it, which steel should I select? I don't sharpen my knives very often, just the occassional strop when used; therefore, I'm not concerned with the difficulty in sharpening S30V. What would you guys suggest?

 

[zl1]

I'd say they are similar enough to where your decision should be based on the color of the scales

 

[A.P.F.]

I don't feel that there is any practical advantage of one steel over the other. Both will strop up nicely with a few strokes. My understanding is the primary advantage is to the manufacturer, where S35VN is easier to work.

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

I don't feel that there is any practical advantage of one steel over the other. Both will strop up nicely with a few strokes. My understanding is the primary advantage is to the manufacturer, where S35VN is easier to work.

After watching jdavis's cut tests on youtube, it seems as though the S35VN folds over very easily. I know the purpose of the steel is to fold over before chipping, but it still loses its edge a lot faster than S30V.

 

[Ken44]

No, S35VN doesn't loose its edge any faster than S30V. Can't believe everything you see on Youtube.

You won't be able to tell the difference in the steels. Just get which color you like the best. I like the Brown better, but thats just me.

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

No, S35VN doesn't loose its edge any faster than S30V. Can't believe everything you see on Youtube.

You won't be able to tell the difference in the steels. Just get which color you like the best. I like the Brown better, but thats just me.

Couldn't agree more, but I'm inclined to ask such questions with all the complains about S35VN's "softness" compared to S30V. I'll take your word for it, though.
Also, I was thinking about the M390 version with the blue scales. M390 is a great steel and I'd love to get my hands on one, but I'm not a big fan of bright scales. Could I switch the blue with black/brown scales from a S30V/S35VN PMII?

 

[bdmicarta]

You can switch scales and blades but this can be an expensive proposition because the m390 knife is relatively expensive.

In the future the brown model will probably be worth more because it is a limited model. If production ever cranks up again the black g10 models will drop back to their previous prices.

 

[Ken44]

Couldn't agree more, but I'm inclined to ask such questions with all the complains about S35VN's "softness" compared to S30V. I'll take your word for it, though.
Also, I was thinking about the M390 version with the blue scales. M390 is a great steel and I'd love to get my hands on one, but I'm not a big fan of bright scales. Could I switch the blue with black/brown scales from a S30V/S35VN PMII?

M390 is a great steel, but like you I don't care for bright colors at all. I did get the new green Para's and the steel should be about the same as M390. You could always get a Green, but they will cost more than the brown or black.
I wouldn't try to swap the blades myself. They should(but may not) fit the same, but your warranty would also be voided.

BTW- many time's when a new steel comes out there are a couple of vids that get alot of people talking. When Sal saw one here on the S35VN he did a CARTA test and said the steel was fine and performed as it should. Chris Reeve cut some stuff with it as well and said it was good to go. I can't tell a difference in S30V and S35VN myself, and I know others that say the same.

 

[Fancier]

I have owned both and consider the steels to be equivalent. For a better informed opinion check the chart in here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

You can switch scales and blades but this can be an expensive proposition because the m390 knife is relatively expensive.

In the future the brown model will probably be worth more because it is a limited model. If production ever cranks up again the black g10 models will drop back to their previous prices.

True, but at least it still doesn't cost as much as a Sebenza. I've found several black and brown PM II's on ebay going for about $170. Decent price, imo.

BTW- many time's when a new steel comes out there are a couple of vids that get alot of people talking. When Sal saw one here on the S35VN he did a CARTA test and said the steel was fine and performed as it should. Chris Reeve cut some stuff with it as well and said it was good to go. I can't tell a difference in S30V and S35VN myself, and I know others that say the same.

Good to know. I just want to be sure that I'm making the wisest decision possible if I'm going to be dropping more than 100 bucks on a knife.

I have owned both and consider the steels to be equivalent. For a better informed opinion check the chart in here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

Thanks for the chart, friend! Very helpful.

 

[RevDevil]

After watching jdavis's cut tests on youtube, it seems as though the S35VN folds over very easily. I know the purpose of the steel is to fold over before chipping, but it still loses its edge a lot faster than S30V.

With all due respect to all parties involved, one or two videos is not enough to make a global declaration about anything. The issue experienced in that video is a single instance of literally tens of thousands of people having the exact opposite. On another note, how can you say that you know (so matter-of-factly) what the steel's purpose is? This sounds like a case of simple parrotting what has been said by others, not necessarily factual, but oh well'

"Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story."

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

With all due respect to all parties involved, one or two videos is not enough to make a global declaration about anything. The issue experienced in that video is a single instance of literally tens of thousands of people having the exact opposite. On another note, how can you say that you know (so matter-of-factly) what the steel's purpose is? This sounds like a case of simple parrotting what has been said by others, not necessarily factual, but oh well'

With all due respect, I'm sure we've all done more than watch a single video. Although sometimes one or two videos is all you need to watch in order to question the quality of an object. Jdavis conducts very consistent cutting tests, and has used several different folders that are made with S35VN (i.e. Native 5, Sebenza 21, PM II); all tests provided similar results. Three tests on three different knives that use the same steel...That's not a coincidence. S35VN is supposed to be "superior" to S30V because of the niobium that's added. However, in my experience, S35VN is much easier to sharpen than most S30V blades. It's much easier to get a hair-shaving edge on my Sebenza 21 with S35VN than on my Manix 2 sprint run (S30V). I prefer to call S35VN "softer" because of this fact. My understanding is that the niobium in S35VN provides the steel with the ability to "roll over" before chipping/breaking, unlike the S30V. Is that factual enough for you?

 

[singularity35]

With all due respect, I'm sure we've all done more than watch a single video. Although sometimes one or two videos is all you need to watch in order to question the quality of an object. Jdavis conducts very consistent cutting tests, and has used several different folders that are made with S35VN (i.e. Native 5, Sebenza 21, PM II); all tests provided similar results. Three tests on three different knives that use the same steel...That's not a coincidence. S35VN is supposed to be "superior" to S30V because of the niobium that's added. However, in my experience, S35VN is much easier to sharpen than most S30V blades. It's much easier to get a hair-shaving edge on my Sebenza 21 with S35VN than on my Manix 2 sprint run (S30V). I prefer to call S35VN "softer" because of this fact. My understanding is that the niobium in S35VN provides the steel with the ability to "roll over" before chipping/breaking, unlike the S30V. Is that factual enough for you?

If you are really convinced by the vids, then it's no use arguing about it. Just get what you want. I don't mean any disrespect with that but you should get what you want. Getting what you want will make you happier than getting something you just allowed yourself to be persuaded into.

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

If you are really convinced by the vids, then it's no use arguing about it. Just get what you want. I don't mean any disrespect with that but you should get what you want. Getting what you want will make you happier than getting something you just allowed yourself to be persuaded into.

Did I say that I was "convinced by the vids?"
No, I did not. I simply stated facts that pertain to the properties of S35VN. A simple google search can provide you with the same information. Never did I say that one steel was better than the other; the initial question was simply asking which steel would be suggested with this specific knife. I've never owned a paramilitary 2 and only plan on buying one, so I'd like to purchase what would be considered the better of the two. Everyone in the previous posts were helpful in making it clear that there would be no noticeable difference, so why bother dragging this "argument" on? The question was answered, and there was no point in making any snide remarks about my "parroted" statement. I guess people forget how to read every now and then, "but oh well".

 

[singularity35]

Did I say that I was "convinced by the vids?"
No, I did not. I simply stated facts that pertain to the properties of S35VN. A simple google search can provide you with the same information. Never did I say that one steel was better than the other; the initial question was simply asking which steel would be suggested with this specific knife. I've never owned a paramilitary 2 and only plan on buying one, so I'd like to purchase what would be considered the better of the two. Everyone in the previous posts were helpful in making it clear that there would be no noticeable difference, so why bother dragging this "argument" on? The question was answered, and there was no point in making any snide remarks about my "parroted" statement. I guess people forget how to read every now and then, "but oh well".

You sure are sensitive. I already said that I meant no disrespect and there was nothing snide in my post. I just told you to get what you want, which you are going to do anyway. As a previous poster suggested, it comes down to choice of scale color for you. It is you who is dragging this "argument" which IMHO, is not an argument at all but a noob being schooled by the more experienced members(of which I don't include myself).

BTW, I was here when that brouhaha broke and when it was settled. I watched the vids, I read the discussions on the forums and the manufacturers' answers, and most important, the feedback from the users. I myself did not buy the brown para because I believed that it would be close enough to S30V as to make no difference to me and I did not want to pay a premium for scale color alone.

 

[Caustik]

I think regardless of steel, once you get a PM 2 in your hand you'll have a hard time letting go. I absolutely love my Insingo, but find myself cheating with my PM 2 a lot.
I own both a s30v and an s35vn PM 2 and other then the s35vn seems slightly easier to sharpen (I'm not very hard on my paras, i have other knives for that), I would easily say I cannot for the life of me tell any difference otherwise.

My only advice is, go with the look of the PM you like, and leave the worry about molecular composition for something else.



ok... maybe if i could get one in m390

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

You sure are sensitive. I already said that I meant no disrespect and there was nothing snide in my post. I just told you to get what you want, which you are going to do anyway. As a previous poster suggested, it comes down to choice of scale color for you. It is you who is dragging this "argument" which IMHO, is not an argument at all but a noob being schooled by the more experienced members(of which I don't include myself).

BTW, I was here when that brouhaha broke and when it was settled. I watched the vids, I read the discussions on the forums and the manufacturers' answers, and most important, the feedback from the users. I myself did not buy the brown para because I believed that it would be close enough to S30V as to make no difference to me and I did not want to pay a premium for scale color alone.

I wasn't aware that you could measure someone's level of sensitivity over a couple of sentences. I never said you were snide, that comment was directed towards RevDevil, whose post was unnecessary. Again, it might help to know how to read thoroughly. Noob? I wouldn't call myself a noob, I've had many experiences with numerous blades over the past few years...but I'm definitely no expert. I'm just a humble knife user looking for information. I joined the forum setting because I believed I'd be able to ask simple questions and receive simple answers in a more polite manner. I should have figured that there'd be egotistical know-it-alls who needed to post psychological evaluations on my sensitivity and ignore the basic question. And I'm not quite sure how I'm being "schooled" as neither you or RevDevil have provided any relevant information that would assist in my search for the better PM II.
If you've watched/read all of that, then you'd know that there's truth behind what I've said. I did NOT say that one steel was better than the other. I simply stated that the properties of S35VN allow the steel to fold over, resulting in a better resistance to chipping. I believe I've said this several times now, yet I'm still "being schooled", without being disproven. Funny how that works, huh?

 

[singularity35]

blah blah blah...any relevant information that would assist in my search for the better PM II...blah blah blah

It has been answered several times that it's only scale color that will separate the knives. You kept on harping about molecular composition in the face of being told by experienced users, that it would be hard to tell the two steels apart in use. Real world use, that is.

If you did your research, you'd also have found Ankerson's edge retention tests.

Besides what is better? Better for what?

So what are we arguing about again?

 

[Paul Dragosljvich]

It has been answered several times that it's only scale color that will separate the knives. You kept on harping about molecular composition in the face of being told by experienced users, that it would be hard to tell the two steels apart in use. Real world use, that is.

If you did your research, you'd also have found Ankerson's edge retention tests.

Besides what is better? Better for what?

I guess my question to you is if you were properly educated on how to read. I agreed with what Ken44 had told me and dropped the issue there, until RevDevil insisted on making his comments. Before that, the conversation was about M390 and swapping handle scales, nothing even pertaining to S35VN or S30V. Stating that my post wasn't "necessarily factual" led to me providing facts (which still haven't been disproven). Still you're here, accusing me of "harping" by telling me something that I already agreed with. I think you're the harpy, my friend.

You know what they say, you know you've lost at a dispute when you have to resort to hypothetical questions.

 

[singularity35]

I guess my question to you is if you were properly educated on how to read. I agreed with what Ken44 had told me and dropped the issue there, until RevDevil insisted on making his comments. Before that, the conversation was about M390 and swapping handle scales, nothing even pertaining to S35VN or S30V. Stating that my post wasn't "necessarily factual" led to me providing facts (which still haven't been disproven). Still you're here, accusing me of "harping" by telling me something that I already agreed with. I think you're the harpy, my friend.

You know what they say, you know you've lost at a dispute when you have to resort to hypothetical questions.

Yep, you replied to RevDevil and I replied to your post. But then you're the one who got pissed when told that you should get what you want. That was after all, the gist of my post to you. You did try to argue that my post was snide. I said it wasn't, but yet you continue to play the victim.