Spyderco PMII S30V or S35VN?

Correct me if I'm wrong (which you aren't very skilled at), but you're participating in this pointless conversation just as much as I am. Next time you post something on a thread, at least try to be helpful...


There's another saying you probably know of: When proposing hypothetical questions fails, reply with "You mad bro?".
 
Paul Dragosljvich said:
Correct me if I'm wrong (which you aren't very skilled at), but you're participating in this pointless conversation just as much as I am. Next time you post something on a thread, at least try to be helpful...


There's another saying you probably know of: When proposing hypothetical questions fails, reply with "You mad bro?".
Click to expand...

I was helpful. So which para are you getting? I bet you'll be getting the one you want. So I guess you'll be taking my advice after all. ;)
 
Paul Dragosljvich said:
True, but at least it still doesn't cost as much as a Sebenza. I've found several black and brown PM II's on ebay going for about $170.
Click to expand...

I think my point was that the brown models are limited production and the black ones are normal production. If there weren't shortages in production there would be a significant difference in price between the black models and the brown models. I think if inventories return to normal then the black models will be available closer to $100 while the brown models may not go down very much.

Personally the black ones don't interest me very much even though I have many other knives with black G10. I'm not all that keen on brown either. I really like the blue ones and have carried those. I would have liked the orange one but probably would not have carried it. I would like the green one too but that might not happen. I do have some interest in getting a digicam model and putting red rit dye on the scales.
 
bdmicarta said:
I think my point was that the brown models are limited production and the black ones are normal production. If there weren't shortages in production there would be a significant difference in price between the black models and the brown models. I think if inventories return to normal then the black models will be available closer to $100 while the brown models may not go down very much.

Personally the black ones don't interest me very much even though I have many other knives with black G10. I'm not all that keen on brown either. I really like the blue ones and have carried those. I would have liked the orange one but probably would not have carried it. I would like the green one too but that might not happen. I do have some interest in getting a digicam model and putting red rit dye on the scales.
Click to expand...

I usually just stick with black on all of my knives. If I could get my hands on the blue M390 version, I'd probably deal with it, but otherwise I'd like to stick with the black S30V. Has Sal said anything pertaining to when the PM II would return to normal production?
 
Ken44 said:
No, S35VN doesn't loose its edge any faster than S30V. Can't believe everything you see on Youtube.

You won't be able to tell the difference in the steels. Just get which color you like the best. I like the Brown better, but thats just me.
Click to expand...

What Ken wrote. Jim's test results place them in the same category:

Category 5

S30V (60)
VG-1
CPM - D2 (62)
N690
ATS-34 (59)
CPM-S35VN (59)
N680
ELMAX (58.5) Mule
D2 - Dozier K2
Click to expand...

Paul Dragosljvich said:
I guess my question to you is if you were properly educated on how to read. I agreed with what Ken44 had told me and dropped the issue there, until RevDevil insisted on making his comments. Before that, the conversation was about M390 and swapping handle scales, nothing even pertaining to S35VN or S30V. Stating that my post wasn't "necessarily factual" led to me providing facts (which still haven't been disproven). Still you're here, accusing me of "harping" by telling me something that I already agreed with. I think you're the harpy, my friend.

You know what they say, you know you've lost at a dispute when you have to resort to hypothetical questions.
Click to expand...


I think you can consider that disproven. ;)

Paul Dragosljvich said:
After watching jdavis's cut tests on youtube, it seems as though the S35VN folds over very easily. I know the purpose of the steel is to fold over before chipping, but it still loses its edge a lot faster than S30V.
Click to expand...

That video was completely, and factually and honestly, dissected and discredited in a long thread at Spyderco Forums. :thumbdn:
 
S35VN offers more ductility and corrosion resistance for a slight trade off in wear resistance. S35VN has only 0.5% less carbide volume then s30v. Niobium is softer then vanadium, so that makes a slight difference when these two alloy's are compared.
 
My experiences with both steels led me to the conclusion that S35vn will sharpen up easier and quicker than S30v.I never had and problems with S30v. I think I would choose the brown one if I was going to use the knife for situations that you will have to stop and touch up to maintain a good edge while cutting.The Native 5 and it's S35vn has served me well.I have the brown and black Para also........
 
I am not a big fan of S30V personally. I have had many edges roll. A knife with S30V would not deter me from buying it though. "CPM S35VN is a martensitic stainless steel designed to offer improved toughness over CPM S30V. It is also easier to machine
and polish than CPM S30V...CPM S35VN about 15-20% tougher than CPM S30V without any loss of wear resistance. CPM S35VN’s improved toughness gives it better resistance to edge chipping." That is straight from http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsS35VNrev12010.pdf For me, I would consider the fact that Crucible decided to develop this steel that is so close but slightly tougher than S30V. They send a pretty clear message that S30V needed improving in their eyes and my personal experience says the same. BTW I have not tried S35VN yet, just reading between the lines a bit. Take that how you want.
 
JNewell said:
I think you can consider that disproven. ;)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the educating response, JNewell. Normally I wouldn't bother giving credit to a few videos on Youtube. However, I recently purchased a Small Sebenza 21 with the S35VN steel. I cut up a few things such as cardboard and other objects to get a feel for the Sebenza, as I do the same with every new blade I get. I've never had a knife that lost its edge so quickly. After a few slices of cardboard, it already lost it's hair popping edge. I couldn't even cut copy paper with it. I'm aware that cardboard is extremely abrasive and easily dulls any edge...But I spent at least an hour cutting up boxes with a Kershaw Skyline, and it was still able to cut paper with ease.
Maybe my Sebenza was improperly heat treated? All I know is that my experience with S35VN hasn't been too great. And the "rolling over" shown in Jdavis's videos seems to be the only explanation.
 
There was actually quite a lot of that all around when S30V was introduced and not surprisingly the same sort of thing happened when S35VN was introduced. You would sort of think the S35VN learning curve had been mastered by now (although it's easy, and actually some of us often try, to get NOS CRK knives), but as you say, heat treating is an imperfect science and sub-spec blades don't have any obvious signs and therefore do get out of every knife maker's door. Give what you're saying, it's very possible that the blade is in fact sub-spec. A low-key call to CRK might be a good idea. These things are generally better handled directly with the knife maker first rather than the stone-hurling that you see with some regularity :( on internet forums. It's pretty clear that's not your personality in any case...:)...I would follow up directly with CRK. I have three or four CRK blades in S35VN and they basically perform the same as my S30V CRK blades.


Paul Dragosljvich said:
Thank you for the educating response, JNewell. Normally I wouldn't bother giving credit to a few videos on Youtube. However, I recently purchased a Small Sebenza 21 with the S35VN steel. I cut up a few things such as cardboard and other objects to get a feel for the Sebenza, as I do the same with every new blade I get. I've never had a knife that lost its edge so quickly. After a few slices of cardboard, it already lost it's hair popping edge. I couldn't even cut copy paper with it. I'm aware that cardboard is extremely abrasive and easily dulls any edge...But I spent at least an hour cutting up boxes with a Kershaw Skyline, and it was still able to cut paper with ease.
Maybe my Sebenza was improperly heat treated? All I know is that my experience with S35VN hasn't been too great. And the "rolling over" shown in Jdavis's videos seems to be the only explanation.
Click to expand...
 
JNewell said:
There was actually quite a lot of that all around when S30V was introduced and not surprisingly the same sort of thing happened when S35VN was introduced. You would sort of think the S35VN learning curve had been mastered by now (although it's easy, and actually some of us often try, to get NOS CRK knives), but as you say, heat treating is an imperfect science and sub-spec blades don't have any obvious signs and therefore do get out of every knife maker's door. Give what you're saying, it's very possible that the blade is in fact sub-spec. A low-key call to CRK might be a good idea. These things are generally better handled directly with the knife maker first rather than the stone-hurling that you see with some regularity :( on internet forums. It's pretty clear that's not your personality in any case...:)...I would follow up directly with CRK. I have three or four CRK blades in S35VN and they basically perform the same as my S30V CRK blades.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's quite disappointing. What's even more disappointing is the fact that my Sebenza's "birthday" was just over 6 weeks ago...So it's a relatively brand new blade. With Mr. Reeve's reputation for precision while making these knives, it's hard to believe that there are any major imperfections with this specific blade; but it's possible. I'll most likely send CRK an email explaining the situation. I agree, I just wanted other knife addict's opinions before contacting CRK over something that may not have even been an issue. I actually hadn't considered that my Sebenza could be a "bad egg", so thank you for assisting me in making that realization. I appreciate all of your input. :)
 
There is always a lively discussion when you bring up CR heat treat on the CR forum. He intentionally runs steel softer than most. My small regular S30V was the same way - dulled way faster than my other knives. I sent it in and they said it met specs at 58 Rc. I sent the blade to Paul Bos for a heat treat to 59.5...what a difference.
 
IMO, CRK knives aren't ment to be edge holders. They run S35VN on the soft side for sharpen-ability, added toughness because some people will pry or use the knife as a screw driver and probably ease of machining and finishing. If they ran the steel at upper range 60-61 they would have more blades come back with issues like chipping and breakage. If I had the choice I would want the upper HRC range but I don't use a knife for anything but cutting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top