Spyderco Southard vs. Hinderer gen. 6 XM-18 sheepsfoot.

[KVT]

So strange - every XM-18 Sheepsfoot I've looked at has the 6 screws. Every vendor, multiple generations.

What the heck is it about the Sheepsfoot blade profile that dictates what frame hardware the XM-18 gets.

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Lapedog]

I was going to say mid-tech but wasn't sure . i agree with the QC thing, many people have got Spydercos with bad QC including Southards and any flippers that used the caged bearings with those .004" washers . My Southard is mint and also my Domino. But like my Mantra I have some issues and actually am in the process of making my own replacement washers to replace them . I found some hardened bearing washers that might just work. But not 100% sure yet . Got a digital caliper and everything, that's why I knew they were .004".

Try using the knife without the washers. Every Spyderco that has these thin washers I have tried it in works just fine without the paper thin support washers.

 

[palonej]

The steel is the same on both, as others have mentioned. They both also share the ability to have new clothes slapped on them for a different look, which IMO sets them apart from the all-titanium crowd:

I guess I don't have to tell you which of the two I'd prefer.

Same boat! Love the Southard.
Gorgeous collection Greg!

 

[JJ_Colt45]

More importantly, why are there scale screws on the lock side of the XM instead of nuts?

So strange - every XM-18 Sheepsfoot I've looked at has the 6 screws. Every vendor, multiple generations.

What the heck is it about the Sheepsfoot blade profile that dictates what frame hardware the XM-18 gets.

Inquiring minds want to know...

The Sheepsfoot blade sits deeper and the spacers have a different build so the blade has clearance.

The hardware for them is the same as the Eklipse model ... and if you ever get one the screws are smaller bits also.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

The steel is the same on both, as others have mentioned. They both also share the ability to have new clothes slapped on them for a different look, which IMO sets them apart from the all-titanium crowd:

I guess I don't have to tell you which of the two I'd prefer.

nice set!

 

[onionfan]

So strange - every XM-18 Sheepsfoot I've looked at has the 6 screws. Every vendor, multiple generations.

What the heck is it about the Sheepsfoot blade profile that dictates what frame hardware the XM-18 gets.

Inquiring minds want to know...

Sheepsfoot blade would hit the normal hardware I think.

 

[Quiet]

Thanks for the post, OP! I am much more taken with Hinderer's knives than I am with the Southard. I borrowed one from a friend here for awhile and just didn't like it at all. Didn't feel right in my hand, the flipping action wasn't great, it just didn't wow me. As a result, I never purchased one, whereas I have three XM18s in my collection.

 

[brando555]

I got a NIB Southard off ebay for $135 last month. It's really nice. Softened the detent up a bit, and now the action is just about perfect. Not sure I'd have paid full retail for it when they were selling for > $200 or, I still think something like my ZT 0470 is a little nicer, especially with the thin washers that tend to cup... although my Domino and Southard are still holding up fine for now.

 

[Lapedog]

While this thread is open I want to ask if anyone has figured out what the Southard’s intended use role is.

The blade is fairly thin behind the edge but after a deep hollow grind balloons out to a very thick spine abruptly.

At the same time it isn’t much of a “hard use” knife with the paper thin support washers and the cutout for the internal stop pin which appears to make the blade abit prone to breaking.

The handle also puts the knife in sort of an awkward presentation when gripped. Frankly when I have the knife in my hand I am not sure; is this supposed to be a work knife? A tactical knife?

Actually the only role I can see in my Southard is being a well made high quality titanium flipper framelock. That is what it seems to excel at; being a nice knife.

Here are a couple of mine, though I have since traded the one on the right.

 

[Pilot1]

I always liked the Southard. I picked one up on the exchange a few years ago. Very usable blade.

 

[Deinos]

The steel is the same on both, as others have mentioned. They both also share the ability to have new clothes slapped on them for a different look, which IMO sets them apart from the all-titanium crowd:

I guess I don't have to tell you which of the two I'd prefer.

View attachment 1113671 View attachment 1113673

Same boat! Love the Southard.
Gorgeous collection Greg!

Beautiful scales! Where'd you guys get them done? Feel like I used to see providers for Southard scales often... then when I got one recently... they all went away... lol

 

[sgt1372]

Both knives are outstanding. But for the money, I'd have to say the more budget friendly Southard is the winner. On the secondary market they can be a fantastic bargain.

I own a Southard and sold a Gen 6 XM18 3.0 Slicer.

I also own a ZT 0560 and a couple of 0562s and a couple of 0566s. I saw no reason to keep the Gen 6 XM18 3.0 Slicer that I bought given how similar the ZT Hinderers were to it and how well made those knives are, given that they cost only a fraction of what an XM18 does. The ZTs are definitely the better value but that's not entirely what is most important to me in collecting knives.

While it is obviously similar in specs to the XM-18 Sheepsfoot, I view the Southward as an entirely different knife than the XM18 and, while the Southard is certainly a better value, I would not sell the XM18 if that were the only comparison. I would keep them both because I see them as unique and different than the other.

However, that's not the case when you compare the XM18 to the ZT Hinderer family of knives. ZT did such a good job of executing Hinderer's design in these knives, it really is not necessary IMO to own a Hinderer (at least not a Slicer), if you already own one or more of the ZTs, which is why I sold mine.

 

[palonej]

Beautiful scales! Where'd you guys get them done? Feel like I used to see providers for Southard scales often... then when I got one recently... they all went away... lol

Wish I could recommend who did mine........but his ass sits in the Hall of Shame at the moment......deservedly so!!

 

[BD_01]

Every time I get hot for an XM-18 I carry my Southard for a few days and usually come to the realization that any potential “upgrade” brought by the Hinderer might not be worth the cost. Admittedly, I sometimes search for rationalizations to suppress the “buy me now!” voice inside my head.

I found some hardened bearing washers that might just work. But not 100% sure yet . Got a digital caliper and everything, that's why I knew they were .004".

I would REALLY like to hear how your experiment turns out. I love my Southards and would like to make sure they keep running if/when the silly bearing races become an issue. There once was a guy on Reddit and on here (@therealPlatonicForms) who seemed to have a solution with through hardened washers. I tried unsuccessfully to contact him earlier this year, however.

Anyhow, feel free to drop me a DM if you work something out!

( Lapedog , I’ll have your solution as a fall-back too. )

 

[sharp_edge]

The two knives have similar blade and handle shape and both are flippers. Other than that, they are actually quite different.

 

[bobobama]

Sounds like, for the most part, that the Southard is a winner. I'd like to track one down, but I hope it's better than my Positron (the exclusive with polished Orange G-10 scales). The flipping action on that one is beyond horrible- it might as well have a nail nick to help you get it open. It's pretty small as well, kind of a weird size that just doesn't work for me. It's nice to look at though.

 

[Minh762]

My collection was mostly Spyderco and now I have zero Spyderco. I had a few RH designed ZTs but zero RHK up until January of this year. My collection is now full of RHKs. 8 Tri-way XM 3.5 all running on bearing. A gen 2 Eklipse on PB and a XM gen 4 in Anthracite. They just fit me really well.

 

[colin.p]

When I first got my CF Positron, a year ago, it was stiff, but repeated "flips" and a bit of Bluelube and it flips almost as good as my 0450CF. I pretty well have it flipping open consistently.

As far as size is concerned, it is the same size as the 484 Nakamura and ever so slightly larger than the Mini Grip. I really should start carrying it more.

 

[KVT]

My collection was mostly Spyderco and now I have zero Spyderco. I had a few RH designed ZTs but zero RHK up until January of this year. My collection is now full of RHKs. 8 Tri-way XM 3.5 all running on bearing. A gen 2 Eklipse on PB and a XM gen 4 in Anthracite. They just fit me really well.

Sounds like me. Got the Hinderer bug bad this year.

 

[Rusty_shackelford]

I feel like the thin washers/poor deployment issues ( and maybe the high numbers of quality clones available) really keep the southard from being a classic model.
Personally, I love the ergonomics.
Great steel. Nice design.
I see these going for $150 or less fairly regularly.
I feel like that’s an absolute steal for what you get.
Especially if you get one that flips well.