Spyderco tuff overstiff detent. Factory addition that would be a simple fixz

Will Batayte

Will Batayte

Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
640
So I bought a spyderco tuff just the other day. First let me say that i love this knife. Looks, ergos, everythi g except on flaw. The one i got is so ridiculesly hard to open and the hole is way too sharp! i consider it to be a significant issue. On a knife in this price range something like the sharpness of the hole should have been taken care of. I have large strong hands from years of amateur weightlifting so its not me. Anyway it got me thinking. They need to add the option of a cobra hood. It would solve this problem quickly and easily. Its a shame to have such a great knife with this one issue that has such a large effect on performance. Now before everyone starts with the common response, I understand that the knife is overbuilt and all of that. But regardless of this i still believe this to be exactly what i said, a flaw. There are plenty of super strong over built folders out there that are just as tuff. ZT, sebenzas, strider. None of them have this issue and they're just as strong. The zt hiderer is a perfect example of perfection in detent strength. It does exactly what its supposed to without hindering preformance. No pun intended.
 
coldblooded357 said:
There are plenty of super strong over built folders out there that are just as tuff. ZT, sebenzas, strider. None of them have this issue and they're just as strong.
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Are you sure of that?
As an owner of ZT, Striders, and an Umnumzaan, I trust the resistance to sliding off the tang of the Tuff far more.
As to the hole sharpness, that's what high grit silicon carbide paper is for.:) You can dull the hole to your liking, but you cannot remove a chamfer.;)

The detent stiffness is fine in my books as well. Keeps any cop from being able to flick it, and no way will it open in your pocket.
 
The detent stiffness is due largely in part to where the lock cut out is. It's not a flaw, it was designed with that in mind. I've said before, nothing on this knife was accidental. I highly doubt that any of the knives ou mentioned can stand up to what this one can. Time will tell.

The Spyderhole is sharp to allow your finger enough positive traction to open the knife. If you smooth it out too much, there will be nothing for your finger to grab onto. Some folks have ruined their knives this way.
 
RevDevil said:
The Spyderhole is sharp to allow your finger enough positive traction to open the knife. If you smooth it out too much, there will be nothing for your finger to grab onto. Some folks have ruined their knives this way.
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Admittedly, the hole on mine was sharp enough to cut skin. That was a tad sharp.
Now it's better, after a light application of 800 grit silicon carbide paper.:)
 
I would hope Spyderco doesn't change the detent, as it's in line with the hard-use properties this knife was intended for.
 
I sometimes wonder if part of the design philosophy of the Tuff is born out of a dislike for the "Hard Use" fad. A comically overstrong detent that turns the spyderhole into a form of cutting edge for the user would fit that pretty well. (obviously it wasn't designed to injure the user, that is asking for a massive lawsuit, but I kinda consider it to be a tongue in cheek knife design).
 
The tuff was designed with a strong detent and stiff action and lock bar as features, not flaws. All three of which can be attributed to one thing, a short lock bar. The short lock bar was not an accident. It makes the lock stronger as it stores far more energy than the longer lock bars on the other knives you listed. The stiff lock bar (because it's short...) means there is a lot of tension on the blade, the greater the tension, the stronger the detent, the stronger the detent, the harder it is to open because of the increased friction from the detent ball rubbing against the blade tang. All of these "flaws" are by products of an incredibly strong and reliable design. Not all ti frame locks are created equal. The zt, crk, strider etc. knives are reliable and strong, but the tuff should be on another level, at the potential expense of user friendliness. This has been explained by Ed Schempp himself, the designer of the Tuff.
 
While I find the tone of threads that criticize spyderco knives to be different than other manufactures I must agree that in this instance the knife sounds fine and it appears to be time for the OP to go from amateur weight lifting to pro knife opening.
 
The detent and lockbar of the Tuff is perfect for its purpose! You have to intend to open it and intend to close it. It won't open or close accidentally.

The Spyderco hole is too sharp. I had to chamfer mine with a dremel because a few spyder drop openings left my index finger bleeding. After a light chamfering it is now good to go and a perfect hard use folder.
 
stabman said:
Admittedly, the hole on mine was sharp enough to cut skin. That was a tad sharp.
Now it's better, after a light application of 800 grit silicon carbide paper.:)
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But you have soft and very supple hands, I thought everyone knew that much. ;)
 
So like i said in my first post I completely understand the hard use philosophy behind this knife. But I fail to see how a ridiculously hard to overcome detent aids in using the knife in extreme ways. aside from an extreme workout for your thumb. Ok so i know what everyone's going to say. its the strength of the lock bar that causes the detent to be so strong right? Wrong! the detent could be made easier with either a smaller ball bearing, shallower hole, or a set ball bearing. None of which would sacrifice lock strength. I also understand that everything done on this knife was done on purpose. That doesn't make it any less of a flaw. It has still been received by the knife community with mixed results. That speaks for itself. Have yodeeperu ever seen a post that said damn my hard use titanium framelock is almost perfect all it needs is a really sharp opening hole and a detent that makes it impossible to open one handed. Better yet if this is a desirable feature why don't they advertise it in the product description or features? "super tough impossible to open detent" right under "razor sharp opening hole booby trap to discourage other users" lol anyway rant over. But honestly if everyone likes this fine, and to be fair maybe my knife is a defect and its beyond normal specs for this model. What I'm saying is I'd like to see spyderco offer the cobra hood to those who want it as an aftermarket PAID fix for this. I don't think thats unreasonable. and i think it would solve this issue beautifully. I contacted spyderco and they said they can't do this so I will either try and get it done by a custom shop or I'll be stuck with a clamp on thumbstud. Either way I like this knife too much to let such an easily fixed problem ruin it for me.

As for the question of who's tougher between the ZT's and the spydie, saying the spydie has got em beat is just speculation. my CR's and zt's especialy the 0301 seem plenty tough enough to handle anything as does the spydie. in a direct comparison of force required to overcome the detent the spydie wins hands down, but I'm not sure thats really a win. nevertheless none of my comparable knives have this opening issue and none of them have ever opened in my pocket. And to say that any of them are too weak to handle the tasks the spydie can handle is preposterous. Most likely anything that would break one of these knives would be considered abuse.

Also I just wanted to mention that this knife is 100% flickable so anyone who thinks the detent is necessary for legal purposes think again. Flicking it is the one way I can open it quickly one handed. There are two methods. One you grab the blade fuller pivot pin down and assuming your right handed flick the wrist in a tight counterclockwise circle and bam the handle will flip down opening the knife. Method two do the same thing this time grasping the handle with the pivot pin down. this time the blade will fly open. Be careful though this method sometimes if you do it too hard the blade rebounds back from the open position without locking.
 
GMAHN said:
While I find the tone of threads that criticize spyderco knives to be different than other manufactures I must agree that in this instance the knife sounds fine and it appears to be time for the OP to go from amateur weight lifting to pro knife opening.
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How exactly do you determine from other people's posts that my knife is "just fine"? I've been opening knives all my life and I'm damn sure this problem has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the knife. My thread clearly criticizes nothing but the particular problem I've found with this knife. Spyderco is a great company and I own and love many of their knives. if anything I'm criticizing this knife for being different from the easy one handed opening spydies I know and love. So A. learn to read pal, B. don't comment on things you know nothing about. From your post its clear you don't actually own the knife, and C don't speculate on my hand strength. Once again it's something you know nothing about nor would you want to learn.
 
severedthumbs said:
To anyone commenting on how the Tuff was designed; Did you actually design or take part in designing the knife? If not have you had in depth conversations with Ed or Sal about the design features of the knife? If not then please stop saying the knife was designed like this and that blah blah blah because you don't know only speculating.
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Instead of this nonsense, how about you read what was actually posted by the person who DID design the knife?
It's there, right on the Spyderco section.
Read it.
Then you'll know.
 
severedthumbs said:
To anyone commenting on how the Tuff was designed; Did you actually design or take part in designing the knife? If not have you had in depth conversations with Ed or Sal about the design features of the knife? If not then please stop saying the knife was designed like this and that blah blah blah because you don't know only speculating.
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You might want to read the posts that Sal and Ed both made in the manufacturer forum.
 
Here you go:
Watch the video at the bottom:
http://spydercollector.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/spyderco-2012-prototype-ed-schempp-tuff/

Ed Schempp said:
Fullers stiffen and lighten a blade, they don't make it stronger. It might be a moot point to put a fuller in a folder, but if there is any advantage I want it. I've handled large fullered blade and swords. You can control the flex points on a piece with fullers, it makes pieces lighter and faster.

I was given the design criteria to make a folder that will perform with fixed blades. I wanted to use every advantage, the fuller is one of these advantages. I have found that the fuller also gives additional grip positions and other possibilities for opening the blade. I have made fullered blades where the fuller is used for opening the blade.

The grind on the blade is to the fuller, so look at this as a flat saber grind with very strong geometry.

Sals position on design, which I agree with whole heartedly, is no more than necessary, no less than perfection.

Check out the specifications on the Crucible web site and check the Charpy results on several steels. Cpm 3V was chosen like the fuller to give the best performance that can be made.

I think fullers have been covered by the posts in this thread. I think that people should handle the knife and use it to get the total picture. I seriously doubt the the limits of this knife will be tested by many of those that use the piece. It is the strongest lightest folder that with my current knowledge that I could design. Spyderco doesn't ask me for my marketing opinion or to try and make something with less performance because it is cheaper. They want the best I can do and will figure out manufacturing problems as the need arrises. They have never asked me to cut a corner or ignore a margin of better performance.

There are a lot of knives on the market that hype strength, Spyderco doesn't market this way, their basic line is stronger than most knives in production. They just do the best they can.

This knife is the best I can do to bring strength, durability, and performance to the ELU, and it is called the Tuff. It is not my nature to make insincere claims of performance. I like to think that it is not necessary, just let the piece speak for itself....Take Care...Ed
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Last edited:
coldblooded357 said:
So I bought a spyderco tuff just the other day. First let me say that i love this knife. Looks, ergos, everythi g except on flaw. The one i got is so ridiculesly hard to open and the hole is way too sharp! i consider it to be a significant issue. On a knife in this price range something like the sharpness of the hole should have been taken care of. I have large strong hands from years of amateur weightlifting so its not me. Anyway it got me thinking. They need to add the option of a cobra hood. It would solve this problem quickly and easily. Its a shame to have such a great knife with this one issue that has such a large effect on performance. Now before everyone starts with the common response, I understand that the knife is overbuilt and all of that. But regardless of this i still believe this to be exactly what i said, a flaw. There are plenty of super strong over built folders out there that are just as tuff. ZT, sebenzas, strider. None of them have this issue and they're just as strong. The zt hiderer is a perfect example of perfection in detent strength. It does exactly what its supposed to without hindering preformance. No pun intended.
Click to expand...

I will chime in here with hopefully some useful information for you Coldblood.

The Tuff is extremely tight to open when brand new. It does get easier as it breaks in if that makes you feel better about the knife. I have been using mine constantly for a few weeks and I can quite easily flick mine open with my thumb. I did no modifications to it and didn't adjust the pivot or anything. All I did was oil it with some 3 in 1 oil.

My suggestion until it breaks in is to either open it with two hands using the fuller as a grip or what I did a lot is to pinch the fuller with your middle finger and thumb, break the detent open half and inch, then slide it open with your thumb. The fuller works great.

I'm just an average sized guy, so your hands are probably stronger than mine. Give it time, she will break in nicely!

*Maybe it really liked the 3 in 1 oil, I don't know. But, I can spydie drop mine easily too now so it's definitely way smoother than when new. The detent is perfect now.
 
It does loosen up a tad.
It's still got more detent than my other folders, which is fine.
 
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