spyderco tuff... worth the $225 cost to get one?I

O

opgenorf

Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
1,737
Hey All,

I am seeing lots of posts on this knife and have been reading up on the design. I really want one but lets be honest, at $225 of cost for a production knife made elsewhere than the US, is this not a little pricey for what you get?

I am not shy when spending on a quality knife, own a sage 2 ti, and am new to owning spyderco, as I usually carry and edc Hinderer, Reeve, and Customs, but this seems high priced when you think about the materials, its a production folder and is made outside the US.

Any thoughts?

BTW: this sage is still sharp as heck after a week of use, excellent slicer!!!!!!
 
I have the opportunity to handle a bunch of knives and the Tuff is solid. This is a beast of a knife and its one that I am gonna keep once I can save up the cash to keep one. I was surprised at how Tuff the knife felt. I havent put one through any testing in the field, but some folks on here have and I have only heard positive feedback on these. I had one guy local look at one of these and he was impressed. Then he saw Taiwan on the blade and said that was a deal breaker. I dont know wh he would say that. This knife is extremely well made. The materials and fit and finish are great. I am sure there are American knife companies that cant build a knife like this one is built.
 
How is it high priced based on the materials? As soon as you throw titanium in a knife the price sky rockets (and it has a huge chunk of ti given its size), and 3v is not a cheap steel. $225 seems cheap for the materials to me.
 
Yes, without a doubt. In the last few months a VECP, 6 Chris Reeve folders, 3 ZT 560/1's, etc. all passed through my hands. The Tuff is as well made and put together as any of them, actually maybe better than all of them. And the cheapest of the bunch to boot!

It's a quirky, unconventional design. That may put you off but the price should not, I feel it's tremendous bang for the buck if it is a design that floats your boat. I can't remember ever handling a higher quality folder.
 
OOOH, the design actually makes me more interested despite the GIANT choil which improves the use for me. I will enivitably buy one but it still is expensive to me given its production origin.

That 3V is actually cheaper than you think it is when purchased for use as blade stock. I am sure F&F is top notch for a production folder, but $225 for a knife produced abroad where labor is cheap and I am sure the materials are cheaper when bought in bulk than what I have bought.

Ti, while expensive as heck is cheaper for larger companies like BM and Spyderco because of bulk buys. what gets me is that they are posting the MSRP at just under $400 and then they are selling at $225-250. even at $225, similar to the pricing on a ZT 550 or 551 when they first came out, it is high to me.

Don't get me wrong, I own hinderer, CRK, Foreign customs, etc. It just seems high for a production knife from Taiwan. Despite 3V and Ti.. BTW side note for anyone considering 3V, it is an excellent blade material!!!!!

Either way, I am new to Spyderco and could not be considered an expert on their product but having seen their prices range from 15-350 on secondary market for non us produced goods, seems high to me. I will buy one most likely despite the cost just to see it in person!!!
 
I'm considering a Tuff mostly for the design/everything in it material wise, if its fit and finish is anything like the Gayle Bradley its worth every penny.
 
Don't confuse Taiwan with China. The Tuff is made in the same factory as your Sage 2 you like so much. There is nothing cheap about the quality of craftsmanship coming from Taichung Spyderco.
 
I also think it`s an awesome knife.Fit and finish perfect, rock solid feeling.Only the stainless liners are a little bit sharp,but no problem with 2min and Sandpaper.
To me the feedback the strong knife give,is better than the XM18,SNG,SMF i handle.

Greetz
 
Hi Opgenorf,

It seems the "Tuff" has been a very controversial model since first shown. We've made changes to the textures after testing prototypes, and even the changes were controversial. While the functions of Ed Schempp's designs are often not immediately apparent, they are always very well thought out.

As far as the cost goes, we base our prices on our costs. Margins are realtively fixed so no one is making "too much profit" which seems to be the suggestion. The Steel is USA made by Crucible and shipped to Taiwan by Spyderco. All parts are dedicted to the design which means new tooling for each part. Machining and hand work is exceptional, certainly on a par with the knives you mention that you regularly carry. Perhaps you could benefit from more education on current dollar valuation?

The Yen and Euro are stronger than the Dollar so products made in Japan and Europe cost more to make than comparably made USA product. Taiwan is usually a little less than the US Dollar, but not by a large amount, especially adding in shipping and duties. It is really only China that is making products that are considerably less expensive than USA made, and that is because the Yuan is valued at about $.20 to the Dollar.

Even given equal materials (Titan, etc.), it is the degree of skilled labor that is a great deal of the cost in a quality product. Ypu've come to the right place. IMO, the Spyderco forums are still the best place to get good information on any area of Spyderco products.

sal
 
I didnt think the asking price was too heavy on the Tuff. I just paid more than $100 over that number for a production knife. Granted it was made in the USA, which always means a premium price. These 'Is it worth it?' type questions are always impossible to answer. Is it worth to you? You'll only know that by actually buying one. If you want a screaming bargain, get a Para 2, or a Yojimbo 2. Take it from me, these knives are extremely good value for money! Otherwise, have a look around on the after market, always the best way to get a good price.
 
It doesn't seem expensive to me given the titanium and 3V. The knives Spyderco has made in Taiwan are exceptional.
I'm not a fan of the design so I'm passing on this model.
 
Well after all for the tuff you get 3v steel and titanium. Not to many models of knives with 3v steel. Also the location of where a product is made shouldn't dictate the quality nor carry bad connotations with it. A lot of people have prejudice against things not made in the USA, but as many of us know, the Taichung Taiwan Spydies have superb quality. Or if your hesitant about buying one you can just enter this raffle :D I've been following it and it seems like there will be a spyderco tuff raffled next:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/979780-Free-Raffle-for-a-special-Spyderco/page4
 
Is it worth $225?
Well, seeing as I paid $249, plus shipping and tax, I'd say yes, it's worth $225.;)

It comes very sharp, which is surprising in a "hard use" knife.
The tip is rather pointy, while still being a tougher design than on my Striders.
The fuller doesn't get in the way of full depth cuts.
The handle design overall is quite ergonomic, and the thumb ramp wouldn't even need jimping, although it has it.
 
I wish they offered a version without the drilled out sides/circles/whatever it's called. I was really excited for it until I saw this, then it' kind of ruined the look for me.
 
Or how about this:
I wouldn't trade my SnG for a Tuff...but I wouldn't trade my Tuff for an SnG.:)
 
That's cool that Sal actually addresses the issues brought up
by the op. It's that kind of direct transparent communication,
that adds to the joy of owning Spydercos.

I've been burned too many times before by other manufacturers
with some awesome design collaborations, but used overseas
fabricators and the executions just fell disappointingly short.
So, I will gladly pay for a higher priced foreign made knife that is
executed well. I'll go out on a limb here even though I don't
have the knife- yet, but the price seems right, especially
for what you get in the Tuff.

I have no reservations about Taiwan made Spydercos. The
excellent fit and finish of the Sages and Techno that I have
owned, speak to this. After reading plenty of info on the
forums and watching videos, I will without hesitation, pick
up a Tuff when funds allow. Although not a necessity in
determining quality, I do also edc CRKs and Hinderers, but
there is always a special place in my pocket for Spydercos.

I don't see too many 3V bladed production folders out there.
The fact that the Tuff has such a blade, is definitely what
reeled me in. Now I just have to see how it feels in hand.
 
I love the feedback.

Hi Sal,

Perhaps I could do with some proper education with regard to the exchange rate... However isn't the TYD sitting at $.033. I think the correct metric I should have raised is the equivalent cost of labor in Taiwan in USD. Currency translation and accounting for it has always been an area I needed to put more work in. I can see the additional costs of transportation from Taiwan to the states adding into the cost. However, given that it is a physical product would seem to take up little space on a shipping pallet, given the size of the average Spyderco box, I can't imagine this taking up too much space on a carrier.

Without access to some reliable sources of information for the cost of skilled labor in Taiwan I have to assume that what I find, approx $8.5 per hour, is approximately correct which was stated by a Chinese newspaper some years ago. With the downturn in the economy, labor costs have to have dropped substantially to make it even more attractive to produce a product abroad.

I think my original question was directed at those who have "USED" the tuff in comparison to other similarly priced knives of similar materials (ZT 550, 551, 560, etc.). I am not necessarily questioning Spyderco's business practices, every business operates itself and Spyderco seems to be doing well considering the market. Although I would have to dig into your financials to actually have some sort of basis for that opinion. God knows that ebit and profit margins have been terrible for a lot of companies.

Either way, I am enjoying the Taiwan made Sage 2 I picked up recently and am getting more experience with your product. ON the bright side, I can definitely say that your F&F is 100% better on this Sage than most Benchmade knives I have seen. And I have owned hundreds of them over the years.

I will have to say that I am completely convinced that I need to now pick a Tuff up to see how it works out. Thanks very much for the input everyone!!

To answer to the comparison of a Spyderco to a Hinderer, I think they are different beasts all together. The F&F on my nonflipper XM18 has only been rivaled by one custom maker on this forum in fact.
 
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opgenorf said:
Without access to some reliable sources of information for the cost of skilled labor in Taiwan I have to assume that what I find, approx $8.5 per hour, is approximately correct which was stated by a Chinese newspaper some years ago. With the downturn in the economy, labor costs have to have dropped substantially to make it even more attractive to produce a product abroad.
Click to expand...

Although Taiwan and China share a linguistic and ethnic background, Taiwan is not China. It is an independent nation with a distinctly capitalist economy.
 
unfortunately people see taiwan and automatically think cheap.... just like made in china. They are sorely mistaken with the taiwan makers that spyderco uses. They have the best fit and finish by far out of all the spyderco factories
 
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