Spyderco vs Edgepro

[jerrinfla]

I already have a spyderco sharp maker and it's made lots of my knives nice and sharp.
It made a case copperlock that came out of the box into a very good shaver, but it was a long, tedious process, even with the diamond rods. (hundreds of strokes on each side with the diamond rods, and pretty much the same with the gray ceramic rods)
Now I'm sharpening a buck 119 that I bought in wal-mart, not really sharp out of the box at all, and I've spent what seems like an absurd amount of time trying to get a burr on one side, and still no joy. (30 degree angle holes)
Yeah, I did clean all the stones off well with a scotchbrite pad and comet.
I'm tired of the looooong time spent when having to reprofile an edge with my s/m.
From reading info about the edgepro sets, it comes with waterstones in 180, 320 and 600 (in the set I was looking at), and you can even get one in a 120 grit as an add on.
Am I correct in assuming that with the 180 (or 120) grit waterstone in the edgepro, it'll set a 30 degree bevel (or maybe a little less) on the blade a whole lot faster & with a whole lot less effort?

Thanks for any info here.....

 

[Crayola]

Hello!

I have an Edge Pro and a Sharpmaker.

You DO NOT need to spend the $$ on an Edge Pro to get the results you are looking for. Thinning edges with the Sharpmaker is a tedious task that should be avoided. Instead, purchase a large coarse or x-coarse diamond stone (I recommend DMT brand.) Use the coarse stone to thin out edges. It should take only minutes, and you don't need to be too careful or exact with yoru angles. Thin out the edge to under 15 degrees per side (again, just be approximate here) and then use the Sharpmaker to put on a 15 degree per side micro-bevel and for subsequent touch-ups.

What the Edge Pro will do, though, is allow you to play with different degrees (It allows for an "infinite" angle set-up), and you can do everything from reprofile to set micro-bevels fast. A Large diamond stone by itself still will thin out an edge faster though. The Edge Pro's other benefit is the grit range available. You can have an extremely coarse edge or a very polished edge. The sharpmaker is more limited this way.

I hope this helps!

 

[Doug C]

It made a case copperlock that came out of the box into a very good shaver, but it was a long, tedious process, even with the diamond rods. (hundreds of strokes on each side with the diamond rods, and pretty much the same with the gray ceramic rods)

Am I correct in assuming that with the 180 (or 120) grit waterstone in the edgepro, it'll set a 30 degree bevel (or maybe a little less) on the blade a whole lot faster & with a whole lot less effort?

Thanks for any info here.....

You must have removed a lot of steel using the diamond rods!
And yes,the EdgePro will do it a whole lot faster & with a whole lot less effort.I will never regret buying my EdgePro.Hope that helps.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Instead, purchase a large coarse or x-coarse diamond stone (I recommend DMT brand.)

A x-coarse SiC waterstone is much faster, I have an x-coarse DMT stone, two of them actually and rarely use them, I use the fine/x-fine for sharpening certain alloys, but for hogging off metal use a waterstone, or if you want to go really fast make a pseudo file out of 80/100 AO sandpaper.

-Cliff

 

[Crayola]

Cliff,

I have the large green 200 grit SiC waterstone from Lee Valley, I believe the same one you do. My recommendation for a DMT stone is that it is flat and will stay that way. My waterstone dishes during some hogging sessions, and I find it qwirky with water (if I dropped it in the ocean I swear it would soak up all the water and still want more.)

I figure an x-Coarse diamond stone would still be many times faster than a sharpmaker for thinning edges while avoiding more maintenance issues.

I say this, though, recognizing that I may not be using my stone as best as I could. Though I myself want to get an x-coarse DMT hone some day. To use when I'm not near my belt sander that is

 

[Cliff Stamp]

My waterstone dishes during some hogging sessions ...

The x-coarse waterstones dish pretty much immediately, this however doesn't effect their ability to perform a rough shaping. I cut mine up into blocks, use all four sides and they get pretty irregular before I lap them. I used to keep them flatter but I came to the conclusion it is a waste of time and grit, I could use the part I lapped off to sharpen more knives.

...it would soak up all the water and still want more.

The x-coarse ones are very porous, you can pour water on the top and it will run out the bottom. I just keep them in a container of water so they are always fully soaked and then during the reprofiling I dip them occasionally.

I figure an x-Coarse diamond stone would still be many times faster than a sharpmaker for thinning edges while avoiding more maintenance issues.

Yes, many times over, I compared the Spyderco medium to x-coarse DMT when reprofling the edge on a Sebenza, the speed was about 10:1. The gain in time from x-coarse waterstone over x-coarse DMT is not as high, but still *many* to one. I attempted to reprofiled a few very hard knives awhile back with the x-coarse DMT, gave up after 10-15 minutes of achieving little on one and finished each in 2-3 minutes with the waterstone. The speed comes from the pressure you can use, you are unlimited with the waterstones, you can't with the diamonds or you will wear them out fast.

The large x-coarse waterstone is fairly expensive though, you can usually find decent x-coarse stones in any hardware store or even a flea market for just a few dollars. These are not nearly as good as the quality waterstones but still much faster than the Sharpmaker at reprofiling and probably where you would want to start unless you reprofile a lot of knives, depends of course on how much you value your time and how much money you have.

-Cliff

 

[jerrinfla]

I guess the deciding factor for me will be whether I can get over worrying about scratching the heck out of my knives with free hand strokes or not.

 

[Crayola]

Cliff,

thanks for the discussion; much appreciated on this side of Canada!

Jerrinfla,

Thinning an edge by hand (or on the Edge Pro) will produce a scratched up section for sure. And you can run the risk of scratching the blade with both systems again. The solution is to tape the blade with maskign tape, exposing only say 1/4" of the edge or a bit more. That takes care of the scratching of the blade worry.

Now about that scratched up thinned out section: You can clean that up with another stone (say a medium and fine waterstone) and then make a microbevel with your Sharpmaker. Or you could thin an edge out by hand, and then do all of the "cleaning" with the Edge Pro.

Hard choice for sure. Best of luck makign it. Whatever gear you get, you'll still use your sharpmaker! I bet that at least 90% of those who own an sharpmaker and an Edge Pro still use the Sharpmaker.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I guess the deciding factor for me will be whether I can get over worrying about scratching the heck out of my knives with free hand strokes or not.

If you are using it, this isn't a real concern, most materials that are cut with knives contain the means to scratch them up really bad, carpet mangles a finish, but even cardboard is easily abrasive enough to heavily marr a finish.

-Cliff

 

[DGG]

I guess the deciding factor for me will be whether I can get over worrying about scratching the heck out of my knives with free hand strokes or not.

If you have a DMT whetstone (or any for that matter) prop it up against the Sharpmaker rod and you will have an angle and will not scratch the blade anymore than you would normally using a Sharpmaker. Be careful because the hand under the protection rods will be exposed when holding the whetstone. Take it nice and easy and you will be okay. I sharpen one side to BURR then switch over to the other.

If you are sharpening a knife you positively don't want a scratch on I would suggest that you tape the whole blade with masking tape except for the actual edge to be sharpened.

 

[rusty edge]

If you are sharpening a knife you positively don't want a scratch on I would suggest that you tape the whole blade with masking tape except for the actual edge to be sharpened.

If you positively don't want the knife scratched, then I have to wonder why it needs sharpening in the first place, being that it is probally never used. I love giving my knives hell.

 

[thombrogan]

I guess the deciding factor for me will be whether I can get over worrying about scratching the heck out of my knives with free hand strokes or not.

Once your knives get a bit of use:

You won't notice errant scratches from any system. Edge polished at 40 degrees with Spyderco fine stones.

 

[jerrinfla]

Cliff Stamp

If you are using it, this isn't a real concern, most materials that are cut with knives contain the means to scratch them up really bad, carpet mangles a finish, but even cardboard is easily abrasive enough to heavily marr a finish.

-Cliff
-----------------------------------------------------
rusty edge

If you positively don't want the knife scratched, then I have to wonder why it needs sharpening in the first place, being that it is probally never used. I love giving my knives hell.
------------------------------------------------------

LOL...... good points.
I do have a few knives that I'll never use. So why would I care whether they are sharp or not?
I don't have a good answer for that, except that it must be part of the mind set that compelled me to buy some knives that I never plan on cutting anything with.
You're right, of course .....as far as the ones I do use it shouldn't be a concern to me at all.
But I "ARRRGH!" every time I scratch one, even though it's a user. I hate seeing the "new out of the box" look go away. I'll just have to work on getting over that........lol

 

[jerrinfla]

Once your knives get a bit of use:

You won't notice errant scratches from any system. Edge polished at 40 degrees with Spyderco fine stones.

Thanks for posting THAT picture!
That pushed me a long way past feeling guilty about scratching up a schatt & morgan barlow and a wharncliff copperlock I reprofiled with the sharpmaker!
I guess I just haven't seen enough knives that are used a lot, and felt like I ruined a finely crafted object!

 

[nolan raborn]

If you positively don't want the knife scratched, then I have to wonder why it needs sharpening in the first place, being that it is probally never used. I love giving my knives hell.

I think that your nickname "Rusty Edge" must fit you well. I have a bunch of nice knives that have been carried and used a bunch and have been sharpened over and over and none of them have hardly any scratches on them. Just depends on how much you like your stuff and how much care you take of it.

 

[JD Spydo]

I somewhat agree with what the brother said about the 204 Sharpmaker taking a very long time to do some blades. There is one thing that goes without saying. I have even seen a post of Mr. Glesser himself admiting to using the NORTON 3 N 1 sharpening system to re-profile the knives that have really gotten beaten up.

I use a NORTON Diamond benchstone with 325 Grit coarse to do my reprofiling before I even get out my 204 Sharpmaker. I agree that the 204 is not aggressive enough to do really beat up blades. Which is why I pretty much use the 204 as a finishing tool for the most part. Now don't get me wrong because I still think that the 204 is one of the inventions of the century as far as knife maintenance goes but it does have a lot to be desired as far as fast stock removal goes.

 

[robertesq1]

I love my Edgepro. I can now routinely sharpen my knives so the shave my arm hair every time. I was never able to do that consistantly b/f edgepro.

 

[pratzert]

What about the Diamond stones that you can purchase FOR the Sharpmaker 204 ?

I recently got the Sharpmaker 204MF and ordered the super fine ceramic stones AND the Diamond stones.

I have some really dull knives that have NEVER been sharpened in 20 years.

I plan to start out with the Diamond stones, then go to the medium and finish up with the ceramic.

What do you all think? Good plan of attack?

I do plan to buy the EdgePro sooner or later ( Pro Model), but will still use the Sharpmaker for touch-up and the EdgePro for more severe work.

Tim

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Am I correct in assuming that with the 180 (or 120) grit waterstone in the edgepro, it'll set a 30 degree bevel (or maybe a little less) on the blade a whole lot faster & with a whole lot less effort?

I use a 180 grit waterstone with my EdgePro, and I can set a bevel on both sides extremely quickly; even on tougher steels. I doubt that you could seriously reprofile a blade using the Sharpmaker, regardless of the time. I once tried to reprofile a knife on the Sharpmaker, but stopped after 1000 strokes or so with no real results. The Sharpmaker is a good product, but it's really for knives that already have a somewhat decent edge on them. It is not intended for reprofiling, despite the fact that Spyderco does sell diamond stones. It's great for touchups though.

 

[jonburk]

Not to take this thread off tangent but I just wanted to pick up on something Cliff said. He mentioned he cuts up his x-coarse waterstone into several pieces. I was wondering how one does that (what type of saw?). I was thinking of cutting up various stones to retrofit my EdgePro and would appreciate any pointers anyone may have. Thanks.