Spydie Opening Question

[riz_aaroni]

Hello all. I am tempted to get either a para military, caly 3, or possibly a pacific salt. There are some others though. I am worried about legality here. I was wondering if it was possible to flick the blade open solely by using a wrist action. Hopefully you understand what I mean here. Trying to steer clear of gravity knives in any sense of the word. The caly 3, if not able to flip open, seems like the perfect EDC. Low carry clip, sharp is hello, well made, simply great! Minus price that is, but hey, it was such a good knife.

On a side note, I am also a little concerned on strength Spydies without liners.

Thanks for you help,

Aaron Cohen

 

[Kaizen1]

Hi Aaron,

All of the Spydies mentioned can be opened via wrist flick or inertial opening. A cop will less likely consider it a "gravity knife" if you're being responsible and have a "good reason" for carrying.

With that in mind, the Caly 3 has the best detent in terms of keeping the blade in the handle and bringing the blade back to a close. It would have the best chance of abiding by the cop's interpretation of gravity knife laws.

The non-liner reinforced FRN handles (like in the Pacific Salt) will in most cases be more than enough for reasonable EDC work with a folder. FRN is VERY tough stuff, it just lack as much rigidity like G-10 or steel handles. Not necessarily a bad thing, but people tend to assume that just because of the rigidity, the other materials would last longer under all circumstances. I would disagree with that. The different materials have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, G-10 wil more likel chip or crack. You may actually see more damage if you drop both folders from a high place.

Overall, based on your post, I'd say the Caly 3 would be perfect for you. They're all great knives, I've owned all of them.

 

[reholli]

None of the Spydercos I own can be flicked open with a wrist snap alone (at least not without extreme effort, too much effort to make it illegal, practical or worthwhile) if only holding onto the handle without at least some contact with the blade (a flick at the thumbhole, holding the blade while dropping the handle down, etc.)...i.e. none qualify as gravity knives because of the necessary interaction with the blade. Those claiming otherwise have knives with pivots that are too loose.

This includes a couple of Militarys, an Endura, multiple D'Allaras, multiple Delicas, and a Kiwi. I doubt if this fundamental characteristic varies much with other Spyderco models...in any event, this ability or lack of it is tuneable on any model with a pivot screw, at least.

Ray

 

[Kaizen1]

None of the Spydercos I own can be flicked open with a wrist snap alone (at least not without extreme effort, too much effort to make it illegal, practical or worthwhile) if only holding onto the handle without at least some contact with the blade (a flick at the thumbhole, holding the blade while dropping the handle down, etc.)...i.e. none qualify as gravity knives because of the necessary interaction with the blade. Those claiming otherwise have knives with pivots that are too loose.

Just because you don't know how to flick open knives easily, does not mean it can't be done:jerkit::barf:. I can easily flick open most Spyderco knives, including those with tightened pivot screws. Gravity knife laws are open to interpretation by the officers, which can be heavily swayed by the vibe you give them as well as their particular attitude that day. Ask Morimotom, he's a cop down in So Cal.

Canada has similar gravity laws and rejects a great deal of spydercos from coming in the country because of their ability flick open the very knives that you're such a difficult time doing. The people over in the Spyderco Forums (Spyderco website) are well aware of this.

Spend some more time in the knife law forums and you'll find people with similar experiences. I am not saying that Spydercos are universally seen by cops as gravity knives. I am saying that they can be if the cop wants to look at it that way.

 

[riz_aaroni]

I understand you completely. I have a legal teacher who has told police chiefs the actual meaning of some laws and what they can legally do. They then have this confused look on their faces. It does come down to interpretation,which annoys the hell out of me since I feel like I am at risk no matter what I carry. A good round of knife law revamping would be nice, assuming we all don't get screwed over in the process.

I think I'll just tighten the pivot screw to make sure on a couple of tries you can't do it. I didn't think I could flick open one of the knives I had, but you need to get the motion down for it and I doubt a cop will spend 10 minutes trying to do so. Thanks for both of your comments, definitely appreciated.

Sincerely,
Aaron C.

 

[yablanowitz]

Try very hard not to annoy the officers, because some of them WILL spend ten minutes trying to get the blade to open, and will confiscate it if they can. Even if that means a whole arm swing with wrist snap at the end.

 

[riz_aaroni]

Will try not to, depends on where I am too. Back home there are fewer cops, the town is smaller and they might be more lenient. Up at school in Rochester, I think cops would be tougher on knives. Sighs, this shouldn't be this hard.

 

[Spyharpy]

Of all the Spydies I own, the ones that I can easily flip open with some wrist action are the T-Mag, Captain and Superhawk. I haven't played with the pivot screws as they are untouched from the factory. I'm sure if they were tightened more, they'd be harder to flip out. The Captain has a heavy blade so that one flicks open with ease.

 

[reholli]

Just because you don't know how to flick open knives easily, does not mean it can't be done:jerkit::barf:. I can easily flick open most Spyderco knives, including those with tightened pivot screws. Gravity knife laws are open to interpretation by the officers, which can be heavily swayed by the vibe you give them as well as their particular attitude that day. Ask Morimotom, he's a cop down in So Cal.

Canada has similar gravity laws and rejects a great deal of spydercos from coming in the country because of their ability flick open the very knives that you're such a difficult time doing. The people over in the Spyderco Forums (Spyderco website) are well aware of this.

Spend some more time in the knife law forums and you'll find people with similar experiences. I am not saying that Spydercos are universally seen by cops as gravity knives. I am saying that they can be if the cop wants to look at it that way.

I assure you that I can flick just about any knife open (including the ones that I listed) that anyone else can. I acquired this ability (generally) long before you were born. However, I prefer not to for knife longevity reasons along with a personal desire to avoid drawing attention to myself when opening a knife. Another personal preference is for a tight enough pivot to eliminate any hint of blade play while still allowing a given knife to be opened the way the designer intended.

What I actually said (or at least meant to say) is that the amount of effort required to flick a knife open without direct contact with the blade when the pivot screw is properly tightened eliminates these knives from consideration when examining the actual gravity/inertial-opening legal definitions as written in most jurisdictions. Your claim that you can easily do so with a properly tightened pivot is purely subjective without corroboration in a lab setting and agreement on what constitutes excessive or normal force levels.

No law is ultimately open to interpretation only by the confronting officer...if that were the case, there would be no court systems and we'd all be tried and sentenced in the streets. If an officer makes a decision/determination contrary to the actual terms of the law(s) in place, that's where the courts come into play so a proper determination is made based on the letter of the law.

I'm sure any particular LEO could claim a particular knife was in violation at any time...hence the importance of demeanor when confronted. If/when that happens, what's really important to me is the ultimate outcome if that erroneous claim is challenged.

How about a listing with corroboration of the (according to you) large number of Spyderco models that can't be legally imported into or sold in Canada?

By the way, nice job with all the negative smileys...they're always a good fallback when there's nothing meaningful to be said (yes, I know I used one in my previous post).

Ray

 

[riz_aaroni]

While the law isn't only interpreted by a LEO, the problem is they are the ones who will be dragging you into the whole mess. They say it is a gravity knife, take the knife and/or arrest you, you then go through the legal process of clearing your name and in the process spend $$$. So chances are you'll get off, assuming the knife is actually legal, just with a lot of unneeded crapola. I am not necessarily worried about jail time, just about losing a knife or having to waste money/time/both. Well, might just get a kabar last ditch to throw in my wallet.

 

[A.P.F.]

How about a listing with corroboration of the (according to you) large number of Spyderco models that can't be legally imported into or sold in Canada?

The only Spydies that I can't get from my local B&M store are the butterfly knives and autos, which are not legal in Canada. As for everything else, no problem.

 

[riz_aaroni]

The only Spydies that I can't get from my local B&M store are the butterfly knives and autos, which are not legal in Canada. As for everything else, no problem.

Was going to say. Most Spydies are the same in method of opening, so if you can't get one of the pacific salt, delica or endyre like knives, chances are you can't get any of them.

 

[sixfoot7]

The only Spydies that I can't get from my local B&M store are the butterfly knives and autos, which are not legal in Canada. As for everything else, no problem.

+1

We're probably talking about the same store APF, but yes, Jay gets everything that"s deemed legal. Pretty much the entire catalogue without the automatics (are they in there? don't remember). And he buys in enormous quantity, so Customs gets ample opportunity to try, which they apparently do according to other forumites.
We are definitely much more restrictive on firearms than you people in Canada's basement , but the knife laws, at least the area I live in are reasonable IMO. But perhaps you know the laws where I live better than me, Kaizen. Anything's possible.

Rik

 

[Kaizen1]

I assure you that I can flick just about any knife open (including the ones that I listed) that anyone else can. I acquired this ability (generally) long before you were born. However, I prefer not to for knife longevity reasons along with a personal desire to avoid drawing attention to myself when opening a knife. Another personal preference is for a tight enough pivot to eliminate any hint of blade play while still allowing a given knife to be opened the way the designer intended.

What I actually said (or at least meant to say) is that the amount of effort required to flick a knife open without direct contact with the blade when the pivot screw is properly tightened eliminates these knives from consideration when examining the actual gravity/inertial-opening legal definitions as written in most jurisdictions. Your claim that you can easily do so with a properly tightened pivot is purely subjective without corroboration in a lab setting and agreement on what constitutes excessive or normal force levels.

No law is ultimately open to interpretation only by the confronting officer...if that were the case, there would be no court systems and we'd all be tried and sentenced in the streets. If an officer makes a decision/determination contrary to the actual terms of the law(s) in place, that's where the courts come into play so a proper determination is made based on the letter of the law.

I'm sure any particular LEO could claim a particular knife was in violation at any time...hence the importance of demeanor when confronted. If/when that happens, what's really important to me is the ultimate outcome if that erroneous claim is challenged.

Right, what's ultimately important to you. It doesn't change the fact that an officer can do and say what they will in regards to what the law "means" in the moment. And if a cop may in fact do that (especially if some of them have shown a tendency to do that), then it might be reasonable that I point this out to someone who's concerned about this possibility. Most people won't go through the court system for a $50-$150 knife. It's just not worth the hassle. On the practical level the court process is too much trouble for people to pursue.

Your assumption that I must keep my knives too loose just because I pointed this out only exposes your ignorance. The OP asked about 3 knives. The Pacific Salt has a pin construction and cannot be tightened or loosened. The Paramilitary has one of the weakest detents in the entire line. The Caly 3 has one of the better detents in the line and I can easily open it with a few variations of wrist flicks. I never loosen any of the knives that I use. I either keep them as they are or tighten them. Most of the time I tighten them. Your supposed experience and my age here is irrelevant.

How about a listing with corroboration of the (according to you) large number of Spyderco models that can't be legally imported into or sold in Canada?

Looking back on my post, it does seem like I’m saying that Canada has deemed Spyderco knives illegal. That’s not what I meant. I was pointing out that there are occasions where customs has rejected Spyderco knives from coming into the country due to the fact that they could flick them open, which still validates my original point.

By the way, nice job with all the negative smileys...they're always a good fallback when there's nothing meaningful to be said (yes, I know I used one in my previous post).

Your years of wisdom are really shining through here.

 

[mark greenman]

If you dress as sharp as your knives, you won't be stopped.

That being said, the Caly 3, or a white Delica, are the knives I'd recommend for school. Pac salt's a bit big, Para is awesome, but the whole "paramilitary" connotation is a major negative. The Pac salt has a heavy blade plus no way to tighten the pivot, and the comp lock is pretty effortless, so those knives will also be the most vulnerable to wrist flick tests.

Get the Caly 3.

 

[riz_aaroni]

If you dress as sharp as your knives, you won't be stopped.

That being said, the Caly 3, or a white Delica, are the knives I'd recommend for school. Pac salt's a bit big, Para is awesome, but the whole "paramilitary" connotation is a major negative. The Pac salt has a heavy blade plus no way to tighten the pivot, and the comp lock is pretty effortless, so those knives will also be the most vulnerable to wrist flick tests.

Get the Caly 3.

I better start dressing better lol. The Caly 3 is sharp as hell! Cracks me up. I think the Caly 3 is the way to go.

 

[G-2]

riz_aaroni, where do you live? We see the BC folks and of course the Ca folks and we know what you all must contend with. Just currious.

 

[riz_aaroni]

From New Jersey originally, but go to school in Rochester, NY. Currently finishing up finals before I start work up here.

 

[G-2]

Hey riz, good luck on your finals! New Jersey & New York, enough said...

 

[Kaizen1]

riz aaroni,

Sorry for hijacking your thread. I won't go off topic anymore. Good luck on your finals!