squaring dies?

K

Ken H>

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Dec 31, 2011
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Hello all - got a question. Canister Damascus is usually made in a square tube with the weld set in squaring dies. What size should be squaring dies be for a 2"X2" canister? OR, if squaring dies are 2"X2" what size should the canister be? I'm not doing a good job of wording this question. How much is a canister squeezed down when setting the weld?

I'm especially looking at the Coal Iron 12 ton press dies. I'm seriously thinking about that press. Anybody have a Coal Iron 12 ton press that could provide die measurements?

Ken H>
 
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I'm only in the process of putting together my first can, so for what it's worth, I was planning on squishing about 1/4" each welding heat. So for a 2" can, I'd start with 2 1/4" dies.
But with everything inside of a can, I've seen a few folks just use flat dies and rotate 90 degrees each squish. I guess it might depend on how much (or little) you want the proportions of the pattern to change in the can.
 
Thanks BillyO for the comments - I think I remember you're using a 25 ton Coal Iron press?

You mentioned "for a 2" can, I'd start with 2 1/4" dies", do you mean with 2" dies you'd start with a 2-1/4" can to allow the squaring die to compress that 1/4"? That doesn't seem much, but the can should be pretty darn solid with powder and stuff so compressing 1/4" should perhaps would set the weld. It seems like squaring dies could be useful in a couple different sizes?

The wife has about talked me into ordering the 12 ton press.

Ken H>
 
Ken H> said:
with 2" dies you'd start with a 2-1/4" can
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Yes, this is what I meant, sorry. My dies ended up being about 2 1/8", so I made 3 sets of shims in 1/4" increments (1/4", 1/2" 3/4") to shrink my dies
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Great idea - I never even considered shims, I'll remember that. Thank you for that comment 'n idea.
 
You want to end up reducing the can by about one-third to one-half. If it is a 2X2" can, start with 1.5" dies. After working it down to where the dies are touching each other, switch to 1" dies. Take small bites and rotate all the time. The biggest issue is not letting the can soak long enough. It takes a long time for the center of the can to reach welding temps.

Weo's shims are a great idea.
 
Not sure if I mentioned or not, I did place an order for the Coal Iron 12 ton press last Monday along with the cart they have for mounting the press. I needed the press cart mounted so I could roll it in 'n out for storage.

I got a msg today the press has shipped via FedeX. FedeX shows 4 packages - not sure what that's all about. The press ships in 2 packages and the cart I would think was 1 package. Not sure what the 4th package is all about. I guess we'll see when it gets here - this week I hope! Maybe Friday?

I'll make a run to TSC and pick up 5 gal hydraulic fluid for the press. It says the tank holds 4 gal.

AND the weather is showing 80% rain this weekend! :(
 
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Get a BUNCH of friends to come over and help you. Have some 4' long pipe sections on hand to use as rollers to roll the crates into the shop.
 
Yep, that would be the typical thing for a "real" press. This press is in two packages, one package weights 140 lb and the other 120 lb. I've got a 1 ton roll around shop crane that will make it easy to move the packages. As I'm uncrating I'll use crane to lift each section to cart. Should look something like this:
12-ton-Press-Cart.png

I'm not sure how well that cart will work long term, but Coal Iron says the cart works good. Cart is rated for 1,000 lbs. FedEx shows scheduled delivery for April 22, so maybe it will be here tomorrow.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Get a BUNCH of friends to come over and help you
Click to expand...
For those who don't have this option, I'll report that it only took 2 of us to move the 25-ton model from the driveway into the garage using pipe rollers and pry bars. We had to tilt the machine because it was 1 1/2" too tall for the opening.
 
Using pipe rollers and pry bars it's amazing how large equip can be moved when the surface is smooth concrete. I've been involved in moving electrical equip inside motor control centers in the past. pipe rollers work amazingly well.
 
I have moved my old shop twice with 2" pipe rollers and 2X4's for pry bars. I didn't even take the equipment out.

I haven't seen the 12 ton mini-press and kitchen cart configuration you posted. The ones I have seen/used are a the 16 ton with a solid metal base. I'm interested in seeing how the 12 ton presses canisters and thick billets.
 
That cart gives me pause also - sure hope it works. Coal Iron says it works good, but we'll see. ON the press working - there are several videos around showing how it works and I've had several folks who own the 12 ton or have worked on one that give it high marks. Here's a 19 sec video showing forging a Damascus billet and looks like it does pretty good. BUT - since I've never seen a press in operation much less used a press, what do I know {g}
 
I have been wondering about a the need for a foot control myself and looking info ideas. I've had a couple folks say they liked the hand control just fine. I'll know MUCH more in a few days - FedEx shows "Out for Delivery" so maybe it will get here sometime today. Darn weather is showing 90% rain tomorrow, but Sunday is sunny. :)
 
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