SR 101 vs 5160 IN REGARDS TO RUST ???

WILLIAM.M

WILLIAM.M

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Apr 14, 2006
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SR 101 vs 5160 IN REGARDS TO RUST ???

Just got a TAZ RAT that I'm thinking about stripping

Does anyone how SR101 compares in regards to 5160 when we are looking at rusting???
 
Well, high carbon steels are generally more prone to rust, but then again 52100 (SR-101) also has a higher Chromium content, which increases rust resistance. From a practical standpoint, assuming equal levels of finish/polish on the steel surface, I think you'd have a he'll of a time telling the difference. My uncoated SR-101 knives are neither rust demons, nor do they appreciate being entirely neglected. If there's green (meaning live) vegetable matter or blood on the blade, clean it off--dry dirt works wonderfully for this, by the way--and when you get a chance, wipe it down with an oily rag. It'll darken, but that looks better anyway. :)
 
t1mpani said:
Well, high carbon steels are generally more prone to rust, but then again 52100 (SR-101) also has a higher Chromium content, which increases rust resistance. From a practical standpoint, assuming equal levels of finish/polish on the steel surface, I think you'd have a he'll of a time telling the difference. My uncoated SR-101 knives are neither rust demons, nor do they appreciate being entirely neglected. If there's green (meaning live) vegetable matter or blood on the blade, clean it off--dry dirt works wonderfully for this, by the way--and when you get a chance, wipe it down with an oily rag. It'll darken, but that looks better anyway. :)
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Thanks Bro:thumbup:

Will do
 
That was supposed to be "hell of a time" ...damned computer filter helping me out again. :grumpy:
 
I have a stripped Skeleton Warden. I wore it as a neck knife when I was wading/fishing in freshwater. By the time I got home the same evening it was rusted, badly. Granted I got it wet, but it rusted within minutes. In all fairness so did my friends HI AK in 5160, it was rusted by the end of the day as well.

SR101 has great wear resistance and is tough as I will ever need, if it had better rust resistance it would be the perfect steel afaic.
 
GregS said:
I have a stripped Skeleton Warden. I wore it as a neck knife when I was wading/fishing in freshwater. By the time I got home the same evening it was rusted, badly. Granted I got it wet, but it rusted within minutes. In all fairness so did my friends HI AK in 5160, it was rusted by the end of the day as well.

SR101 has great wear resistance and is tough as I will ever need, if it had better rust resistance it would be the perfect steel afaic.
Click to expand...

If SR101 had better rust resistance, it's basically be INFI!


I had a Chopweiler about a year ago that I stripped. Took it out on an early spring hike on a trail in the Columbia River Gorge. It was a particularly wet day and between the cool ambient temperature and my body heat, some condensation had built up on the knife in it's kydex sheath. Like Greg's experience above, by the time I got back to my car four hours later, it was covered in a light layer of rust.

When I got home, I forced a patina on it and the next time I took it out it didn't rust at all...
 
I "Flitzed" my newly stripped Rat Mastiff a few years ago and haven't done a thing since. Its got a nice patina now and still no rust issues. Flitz is some nice stuff!
 
Yeah... SR101 (52100 w./busse heat treat) will gain surface rust fairly quickly if it isn't wiped down after use. Still, it wipes off pretty quickly and I've never had it pit. Ed Fowler uses 52100 too. It's a fantastic knife steel. The user Fowlers I have seen don't have the issue with rust quite as much as the SR's. Perhaps due to the fact that Fowler finishes his blades to a much finer grain. For the money, he should. You get what you pay for. SR offers a very inexpensive high performance blade IMO.


The forced patina thing interests me though... I'm pretty sure I could find some info on it with a search if I wasn't feeling so lazy right now. Some info on that would be great.
 
Carbon 1.00%
Chromium 1.50%
Manganese 0.35%
Silicon 0.25%

From that composition, SR-101 is very prone to rust, but less than those with a higher Carbon content

1.5% of Chromium does borderline nothing against rust resistance, and that's actually a very low number too

No offense guys

Edit:

5160:

Carbon 0.56 - 0.64
Chromium 0.7 - 0.9
Manganese 0.75 - 1
Phosphorus 0.035 max
Silicon 0.15 - 0.35
Sulphur 0.04 max

5160 is a lot more resistant to rust than SR-101
 
kdstrick said:
The forced patina thing interests me though... I'm pretty sure I could find some info on it with a search if I wasn't feeling so lazy right now. Some info on that would be great.
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I have never forced a patina on a Swamprat knife. I have done so on other knives.

My favorite is to clean the knife vigorously then soak the entire thing in lemon juice for three hours -- it brings out a dull gray color in most carbon steels.

-Stan
 
safetyman said:
If SR101 had better rust resistance, it's basically be INFI!


I had a Chopweiler about a year ago that I stripped. Took it out on an early spring hike on a trail in the Columbia River Gorge. It was a particularly wet day and between the cool ambient temperature and my body heat, some condensation had built up on the knife in it's kydex sheath. Like Greg's experience above, by the time I got back to my car four hours later, it was covered in a light layer of rust.

When I got home, I forced a patina on it and the next time I took it out it didn't rust at all...
Click to expand...

I'm going to try this. What method did you use to get the patina?
 
xtestifyx said:
Carbon 1.00%
Chromium 1.50%
Manganese 0.35%
Silicon 0.25%

From that composition, SR-101 is very prone to rust, but less than those with a higher Carbon content

1.5% of Chromium does borderline nothing against rust resistance, and that's actually a very low number too

No offense guys

Edit:

5160:

Carbon 0.56 - 0.64
Chromium 0.7 - 0.9
Manganese 0.75 - 1
Phosphorus 0.035 max
Silicon 0.15 - 0.35
Sulphur 0.04 max

5160 is a lot more resistant to rust than SR-101
Click to expand...


Why would we be offended? None of us said that it wasn't prone to rust. Why, also, do you only list a partial chemistry for 52100? Regardless, theoretical behavior aside, 5160 and 52100 are in about the same class as to rust resistance. That isn't based on metallurgy, that's based on having many, many knives out of both steels from many different makers and actually using them, and also on my piles of raw 5160 and 52100 that sit in the same garage under the same conditions, and are indistinguishable from each other in appearance if they didn't have their names printed on them.

Anyway, as regards the forced patina, it works on SR-101 just like it would any other steel. People use everything from mustard to cucumber slices, which I've always found funny since you can pick up a jar of Naval Jelly from Walmart for about $6, which is enough to do approximately 100 knives, and phosphoric acid (which is what it is) is what tool makers use to produce controlled oxidation.
 
Greg - your answer is one forum search away. This is a common question in the traditional forum. Quick answer: slather some mustard on your blade and leave it until desired patina has been achieved.
 
t1mpani said:
Why would we be offended? None of us said that it wasn't prone to rust. Why, also, do you only list a partial chemistry for 52100? Regardless, theoretical behavior aside, 5160 and 52100 are in about the same class as to rust resistance. That isn't based on metallurgy, that's based on having many, many knives out of both steels from many different makers and actually using them, and also on my piles of raw 5160 and 52100 that sit in the same garage under the same conditions, and are indistinguishable from each other in appearance if they didn't have their names printed on them.

Anyway, as regards the forced patina, it works on SR-101 just like it would any other steel. People use everything from mustard to cucumber slices, which I've always found funny since you can pick up a jar of Naval Jelly from Walmart for about $6, which is enough to do approximately 100 knives, and phosphoric acid (which is what it is) is what tool makers use to produce controlled oxidation.
Click to expand...

mikeymoto said:
Greg - your answer is one forum search away. This is a common question in the traditional forum. Quick answer: slather some mustard on your blade and leave it until desired patina has been achieved.
Click to expand...

I have mustard and Naval Jelly, thanks!
 
WILLIAM.M said:
SR 101 vs 5160 IN REGARDS TO RUST ???

Just got a TAZ RAT that I'm thinking about stripping

Does anyone how SR101 compares in regards to 5160 when we are looking at rusting???
Click to expand...

I have had one knife that was 5160........it rusted very easily and quickly if not wiped off immediately.

From my experience with Swamp Rat's SR101........it seems very comparable to 5160's corrosion resistance.....or lack there of.
 
I have more experience with 52100 than SR-101 (which I understand are very similar). It will rust for sure if neglected. If you use em on sappy plant matter, best thing is a wet wipe to get rid of the sap. Then clean em with soapy water and lastly apply a light coating of oil like Balllistol. Sounds like a lot of work but high carbon steels require more maintenance, end of story. I guess that's why the Swamp coats em!

Also, try not to store em in dark enclosed spaces like a drawer. Leave em out in the open, they will stay rust free for a lot longer. If you do find rust spots starting up, they can be largely removed with a pencil, and then Flitz or a similar metal polish. Of course, if left for too long, the rust will pit the blade. In summertime here, I have to constantly monitor my carbon steel blades.

However, you may as well accept that on a working knife in high carbon you will never keep it entirely free of staining, etc
 
Personally speaking, I have stripped and polished a Ratmandu. It rusts like a mother****er. My natural skin acid is always a good indication of corrosion perfomance and having handled many types of alloys over the years, I can tell you that SR-101 oxidizes slightly less readily than mild steel. Fingerprints galore from handling in mere hours. Keep it oiled or coated is my strong advice. Also, I live in a very harsh environment (salt air) so that proves to be a good indicator of the corrosion resistance of my cutlery. Basically, I just can't leave it bare for a second. In addition to coating the exposed steel, I recommend keeping it in an enclosed, dry place with a dish of silica gel beads nearby. Get them in bulk at Harbor Freight.
 
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