SR 101 vs 5160 IN REGARDS TO RUST ???

BlackKnight86 said:
How much is rust resistance improved with a patina?
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It doesn't make it rust-proof, but a surface which has already undergone it's chemical reaction to a corrosive is then less reactive when subjected to the same type of agent. That's the entire reason why guns had brown/blue finishes applied to them for centuries.
 
GregS said:
I'm going to try this. What method did you use to get the patina?
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I wrapped the knife in paper towels and squeezed lemon juice on them until they were saturated. After letting it sit for a couple of hours, I washed the blade off and squirted some mustard in a random design pattern. I let that sit overnight and the mustard left more patina in the random design I had applied.
 
t1mpani said:
Why would we be offended? None of us said that it wasn't prone to rust. Why, also, do you only list a partial chemistry for 52100? Regardless, theoretical behavior aside, 5160 and 52100 are in about the same class as to rust resistance. That isn't based on metallurgy, that's based on having many, many knives out of both steels from many different makers and actually using them, and also on my piles of raw 5160 and 52100 that sit in the same garage under the same conditions, and are indistinguishable from each other in appearance if they didn't have their names printed on them.
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Right after you questioned why I said "No offense", you started sounding like I was on a crash course into your knowledge. Please, I don't mean any harm.

I posted a partial chemistry of SR-101, because we don't know exactly what % of each element is added into 52100.

From looking at the "incomplete" chart and in comparison, neither steels are High Carbon, but they are different from Stainless steels in that those have quite a bit more elements in it's composition.

And again, back with your point of the incompleteness of the composition chart, your experience of 52100 is invalid as it isn't exactly SR-101. I don't think garage storage tells much of Corrosion resistance of steels either without knowing when each steel breaks down from what % of Humidity and start rusting. That's a whole different thing than using them

I think we have the conclusion from multiple replies already. SR-101 Rusts and takes is easily
 
leatherman said:
I "Flitzed" my newly stripped Rat Mastiff a few years ago and haven't done a thing since. Its got a nice patina now and still no rust issues. Flitz is some nice stuff!
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Pics please, I want to see the patina, sounds cool.
 
Sure thing Dave, as soon as the rain stops I'll get a pic. :)
 
xtestifyx said:
Right after you questioned why I said "No offense", you started sounding like I was on a crash course into your knowledge. Please, I don't mean any harm.

I posted a partial chemistry of SR-101, because we don't know exactly what % of each element is added into 52100.

From looking at the "incomplete" chart and in comparison, neither steels are High Carbon, but they are different from Stainless steels in that those have quite a bit more elements in it's composition.

And again, back with your point of the incompleteness of the composition chart, your experience of 52100 is invalid as it isn't exactly SR-101. I don't think garage storage tells much of Corrosion resistance of steels either without knowing when each steel breaks down from what % of Humidity and start rusting. That's a whole different thing than using them

I think we have the conclusion from multiple replies already. SR-101 Rusts and takes is easily
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Not interested in arguing, I was just genuinely confused by your "no offense" line, since you weren't contradicting anything that had preceded you.

Fair enough, though my experience of uncoated SR-101 is lumped together with my experience with 52100, and I have a whole lot of it at a variety of levels of finish from bead blast to mirror, and have put it to a lot of use around blood and acids, which tend to encourage corrosion rather enthusiastically. They are the same steel, it's not conjecture--ask Jerry, ask Eric Isaacson. Jennifer's line started with 52100 because that's a steel that they had a whole lot of experience with (and a large pile of) at the Busse shop, having apprentices grind blades from bar stock. It's true that we don't know the current source for 52100 that the Swamp is using (honestly, I'm not even sure whether there is a "current" source or if they're still working on the original block of it, they bought several dozen tons of it), but my understanding is that it's not 52100E as I don't believe that comes in bar stock form, and Busse is not forging their blades.

Back in the "Through the Hands of the Masters" days of the Swamp, when they were looking for design collaborations with prominent custom makers, I know there was a strong interest in working with Ed Fowler as--in addition to being a well known knife maker--he's very familiar 52100 and it just seemed a natural pairing. I'm sorry nothing came of that particular endeavor as a resiprine-handled Pronghorn just intrigues the hell out of me, but sometimes things just aren't meant to be. For that matter, I'm sorry the whole series kind of fizzled out, it was a neat idea and the couple collaborations that they did do were fairly interesting.
 
kdstrick said:
Yeah... SR101 (52100 w./busse heat treat) will gain surface rust fairly quickly if it isn't wiped down after use. Still, it wipes off pretty quickly and I've never had it pit. Ed Fowler uses 52100 too. It's a fantastic knife steel. The user Fowlers I have seen don't have the issue with rust quite as much as the SR's. Perhaps due to the fact that Fowler finishes his blades to a much finer grain. For the money, he should. You get what you pay for. SR offers a very inexpensive high performance blade IMO.


The forced patina thing interests me though... I'm pretty sure I could find some info on it with a search if I wasn't feeling so lazy right now. Some info on that would be great.
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I like mustard patina.

I like making patterns on the blade. The longer you leave the mustard on, the deeper the etch. I have one knife, (5160) that I leave the mustard patterns on overnight then wash off. The etch is deep enough that even if you polish up the blade, the lines are into the steel.

There are makers that do a hot vinegar mustard concoction that leaves a mottled finish I absolutely love as well!
 
David Brown said:
Pics please, I want to see the patina, sounds cool.
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Finally got some pics, its amazing how hard it is to get the staining to show up.

mastiffcl.jpg


mastiffclose.jpg
 
The first picture is my beater knife (Ontario RD6) which i recently applied a patina to.
:D
IMG_20110210_140454.jpg

Since this is Swamp Rat thread I added my SR101 steel for fun! :cool:
IMG_20110308_130246.jpg
 
I have one 5160 blade with rust, it is an early one I gave to my son in the early 80's. I found it last year laying on a recently pulled irrigation ditch coated with a fine layer of rust, I could revive it easily, but it is kind of sentimental.
 
Ed Fowler said:
I have one 5160 blade with rust, it is an early one I gave to my son in the early 80's. I found it last year laying on a recently pulled irrigation ditch coated with a fine layer of rust, I could revive it easily, but it is kind of sentimental.
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:cool::thumbup: Thank you for the story, I'd love to see that one.

btw, it was nice to finally meet you at Blade '08, a real privilege to be able to handle your work in person, incredible stuff.
 
I like when guys do some cool striping and such with the "Grey Pewp-on" method. I'd be tempted to do that if I stripped a SR101 knife. . . wait - that little Scrapper I just got would do! :)
 
I forced this patina with grapefruit slices, on my swamp warden. It does not want to rust as bad anymore.:thumbup:




DSCF5185-1.jpg
 
I like the pictures direction this thread is taking! I'll try to take more of my nekkid SR101!

I have a stripped Ratchet around here somewhere.....
 
rusting is not a big pro , as i live a relativly dry area, Manchuria of China.
so i treated tusting spots on the blades as aging marks on the old man's face , very cool to look at.

dingy
 
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