SR101- questions.

I have the DMT X-Coarse and this stone definitely takes steel off the Warden at a noticeable rate. Its just a SLOW noticeable rate ;). I have a set of Arkinsas stones at home and i would not want to try to reprofile on those.

That said, re-profiling is removing waaaaay more steel than sharpening. Just because its a dog to re-profile does not make it unmaintainable. These knives are extremely thick, often with very obtuse grinds.

The diamonds are definitely a better way to go, but I'm now practicing on my grinder with some cheap knives as i think this is going to be much more practical for re-profiling knives like these.

You clearly don't need advice on sharpening technique, so better equipment may well be the answer. I will also mention again that there are several excellent bladeforums members who will re-profile you knife for you on a grinder/wheels. This could save a lot of headache and would be a cheaper option than buying a set of diamonds to do it with. That is assuming the Arkansas stones are adequate for maintaining the edge once you get the grind you seek. I have a set of Arkansas stones laying around, perhaps I'll have a go at it on of the SRKW's so i can feel your pain ;)

-- Adam
 
PayetteRucker said:
I never 'force' the process-sharpening is both an art and a science, neither of which pay off if you rush it..... I guess dropping big bones on daimond sharpeners it is...
Click to expand...

I completely agree that high maintenance tools (hard to sharpen knives) are not worth the effort (if I can paraphrase), when there are lower maintenance tools that will work as well. What I'm hearing from a lot of posters on this thread is that if SR101 is properly "prepped", the followup maintenance is fairly low (holds an edge exceptionally well), so the investment in diamond sharpeners pays off in lower prep time and lower maintenance time. That has been my experience with my old Howler and Battlerat, but maybe I have not used them as much as others.

You seem very experienced and get a lot of use from your knives, so I'd be curious to know how SR101 works out for you (assuming you stay with it).
 
A lot of members of this forum speak of "Sharpening hell" and "Impossible Steel"

The reason behind this is the user is using the wrong tool. If user A used Sandpaper and can remove stock at a decent pace, it is certainly not sharpening hell for A.

User B uses Waterstones and gets decent stock removal as well, so it isn't impossible to sharpen this steel to B.

User C uses hardware store stones that was on sale for $5.99. C has trouble sharpening a $3 Smith&Wesson knife. Smith & Wesson is impossible to sharpen to C.

So? What is the problem? I sure don't think it's your technique :cool:

P.S. Toughness and Wear Resistance is a property of steel. You may be able to sharpen 1095 at 66RC but it isn't made of 52100 ;)
 
dogrunner said:
What I'm hearing from a lot of posters on this thread is that if SR101 is properly "prepped", the followup maintenance is fairly low (holds an edge exceptionally well), so the investment in diamond sharpeners pays off in lower prep time and lower maintenance time. That has been my experience with my old Howler and Battlerat, but maybe I have not used them as much as others.
QUOTE]

I get what you're saying... I guess I'll have to pick up some low grit wet-and-dry on the way home from school tonight and see if that will change the pace at all. I'd get one of those 7 dollar DMT XCourse deals but I don't know how long they'd last... that's not alot of surface area for working with a good amount of hard stock removal.
Click to expand...
 
PayetteRucker said:
dogrunner said:
What I'm hearing from a lot of posters on this thread is that if SR101 is properly "prepped", the followup maintenance is fairly low (holds an edge exceptionally well), so the investment in diamond sharpeners pays off in lower prep time and lower maintenance time. That has been my experience with my old Howler and Battlerat, but maybe I have not used them as much as others.
QUOTE]

I get what you're saying... I guess I'll have to pick up some low grit wet-and-dry on the way home from school tonight and see if that will change the pace at all. I'd get one of those 7 dollar DMT XCourse deals but I don't know how long they'd last... that's not alot of surface area for working with a good amount of hard stock removal.
Click to expand...

Make sure you get enough paper. I wasted much time by not noticing that the paper grit was worn off. That's what happens when I sharpen and watch a movie.
Click to expand...
 
The advertised hardness of SR-101 steel (at the edge) is 58-60 HRC. 52100 has more abrasion resistance (at equivalent hardness) than 5160, 1095, or O1 and does take a bit more time to move on stones.

If you want it reground, I'll happily put whatever angle edge you want on it, and I can probably have it on its way back the day after I receive it unless I just have to stay at work for a long time on that particular evening. Usually, I charge $3.00 per blade inch on edge regrinds (just to keep me in belts) but I hate to see you give up on one of the most rugged, high performing blade steels from one of the best production knife companies in the world before ever using it, just because the steel is behaving exactly the way it's supposed to. Therefore, I'll do it for the cost of return shipping alone. Once reprofiled to your desired angle, the edge is easily maintained. High deformation and abrasion resistance combine to mean that you usually have very little to "fix" on the edge after use, and regular touch-ups and burnishings will keep it going just about indefinitely through any normal use.

Email or PM if interested.

I would, however, suggest that you look into obtaining a small, pocket diamond sharpener at some point. I can easily maintain a BG-42 or S90V (if you want GENUINELY hard to sharpen steels) knife in the field with one, and they run about $10. True, it's harder to use an improvised sharpener to sharpen one of these steels, but if we're telling the truth, it's pretty damned difficult to realistically come up with the situation where you're out surviving in the wilderness, and the emergency plane crash that landed you there managed to leave you and your knife intact but destroyed your pocket sharpener, forcing you to scour the river for stones.
 
Last edited:
wrxguyusa said:
PayetteRucker said:
Make sure you get enough paper. I wasted much time by not noticing that the paper grit was worn off. That's what happens when I sharpen and watch a movie.
Click to expand...

Aye, I am particular about that-I also use mineral oil when removing alot of material with wet and dry to keep that from building up-increases the life of the sandpaper. I do the same thing, a vast majority of my sharpening happens in front of my 24 inch computer monitor :)
Click to expand...
 
Lot's of good info on this thread from a lot of knowledgeable forumites.

However, the post by Warren (t1mpani) is something to definitely be considered.

He is an long-time Rat and one of the first to carry our products into Afghanistan(right after 9/11) and later into Iraq. He knows what he is talking about and is definitely someone you can trust with your blades.

I can't add anything to this thread after reading all of these posts (especially after Warren's) because all of you guys are definitely smarter than I am ;)


t1mpani said:
The advertised hardness of SR-101 steel (at the edge) is 58-60 HRC. 52100 has more abrasion resistance (at equivalent hardness) than 5160, 1095, or O1 and does take a bit more time to move on stones.

If you want it reground, I'll happily put whatever angle edge you want on it, and I can probably have it on its way back the day after I receive it unless I just have to stay at work for a long time on that particular evening. Usually, I charge $3.00 per blade inch on edge regrinds (just to keep me in belts) but I hate to see you give up on one of the most rugged, high performing blade steels from one of the best production knife companies in the world before ever using it, just because the steel is behaving exactly the way it's supposed to. Therefore, I'll do it for the cost of return shipping alone. Once reprofiled to your desired angle, the edge is easily maintained. High deformation and abrasion resistance combine to mean that you usually have very little to "fix" on the edge after use, and regular touch-ups and burnishings will keep it going just about indefinitely through any normal use.

Email or PM if interested.

I would, however, suggest that you look into obtaining a small, pocket diamond sharpener at some point. I can easily maintain a BG-42 or S90V (if you want GENUINELY hard to sharpen steels) knife in the field with one, and they run about $10. True, it's harder to use an improvised sharpener to sharpen one of these steels, but if we're telling the truth, it's pretty damned difficult to realistically come up with the situation where you're out surviving in the wilderness, and the emergency plane crash that landed you there managed to leave you and your knife intact but destroyed your pocket sharpener, forcing you to scour the river for stones.
Click to expand...
 
PayetteRucker said:
I never 'force' the process-sharpening is both an art and a science, neither of which pay off if you rush it. I'm no noob when it comes to freehand sharpening high carbon, I've reprofiled all my outdoors use knives at least once- but it's usually in the neighborhood of about RC48 to RC59. But at this rate it's pretty ridiculous-after last night I have about five hours into it with no noticeable steel removal. As far as arkansas stones not being ideal for "high carbon steels or modern alloys...." I'm a high carbon nut. I also believe that if the blade is too hard to be sharpened by hand in the field, it's too hard to be a practical outdoors use knife, which instantly writes off alot of the stainless steels out there, your "modern alloys". I have no desire. Too hard, too brittle. I have plenty of "properly heat treate" high carbon blades-Kabar, ESEE, Koyote Knives and various others-this blade isn't in the same ballpark when it comes to hardness. Not even comparable. I guess dropping big bones on daimond sharpeners it is...
Click to expand...


Like I said, Diamonds are good but not really the best for this steel. With sandpaper and diamond compounds I reprofiled convex and mirror polished a Regulator in 4 hours. Much bigger knife and a lot thicker of a edge. I know you like your arkansas stones but they are far from the best sharpening option. The abrasive itself is not that much harder than steel and its ability to remove metal is minimal, because SR-101 is a quality steel with a good HT(also take into account the higher wear resistance and finer grain of SR101) the softer abrasive of the Arkansas stone has difficulties removing the metal.

Most auto parts stores will carry 12x12 sheets of 3m wet/dry paper in grits of 220,400,800,and 1000. The 220 should be able to profile your edge inside of 30 minutes and if not your problems run deeper than the tools being used. If you want a stone instead of sandpaper a norton stone is like $20.

I use diamond stones exclusively, If I thought they were the better option for this steel I would suggest them. And with most carbon steels I recommend against them.

Don't get too caught up in thinking its the hardness of the steel that's causing the problem, the hardness of this steel is not the issue.
 
LOL, I'm having the same issue. Got my swamp warden yesterday and its dull as can be. I spent 2 hours on the sharpmaker but it will barely shave. I'm debating starting back over using the diamond stone on the sharpmaker, then going to medium, fine and ultra. Its frustrating for sure. My izula came shaving sharp and the BK11 took less than 20min to get there.....
 
SR-101's sharpness isn't a function of sharpening method but proper technique. This can only be achieved with time and practice.
 
SR-101 is 59-60 HRC.

The reason you are having a hard time sharpening it is because the steel is loaded down with carbides (the hard stuff). That lends to the steel's wear resistance (a good thing in edge holding). SR-101 has extreme wear resistance, an extremely fine grain, takes a polish extremely well, and is also extremely tough.

Just to restate it, this knife is no harder than ESEE 1095. It is however much more wear resistant (so superior edge holding, and harder to sharpen).

Also, lets differentiate between "field maintenance" and reprofiling. Once the knife has been reprofiled, field maintenance will be a snap.

-Chris
 
After I reprofiled my Battle Rat it is the sharpest big knife that I own.SR101 has the ability to get screaming sharp.Once you get yours reprofiled you'll absolutely love that steel,Stick with it.
 
chogue1980 said:
LOL, I'm having the same issue. Got my swamp warden yesterday and its dull as can be. I spent 2 hours on the sharpmaker but it will barely shave. I'm debating starting back over using the diamond stone on the sharpmaker, then going to medium, fine and ultra. Its frustrating for sure. My izula came shaving sharp and the BK11 took less than 20min to get there.....
Click to expand...

I did the same with my swamp warden, started with the diamonds on the sharp maker, then moved on down to the fine ceramics. Now it shaves. Took some time, but i have it down to the 30 degree now. Same as my hrlm. But it took longer, and I started it with some smith diamond stones. Now its at 30 and its much better.
 
There is no best. There is only "what is best for me/you?"

If you want to reprofile a harder steel at a quicker rate you need something that will move steel at a quicker rate. Guess why so many people are going to belt sanders just to sharpen knives?

Not wanting to invest in better quality sharpening tools is very akin to the person buying a $1,000 pistol and carrying it in a Fobus. If you are going to use better quality steels get better quality sharpeners. You decide what technique and what abrasion or grit you need. I have had very good initial luck with the DMT diamond hones. Others love sand paper, at least one person here only wants a belt sander.

We'll be arguing about 1,000 vs. 20,000 grit AND technique long after everyone is gone. You have to decide what works best for you. That will take practice.

To start with do this:

  • Buy a $25 to $50 knife so you know you have heat treat.
  • Spend about the same on sharpening stones of various types.
  • Read every technique here and every book on the subject you can find.
  • Start practicing and be prepared to screw it up 100 times before you even start to learn.
  • Once you understand what you are doing move up to higher quality knives and different techniques/tools.

IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE ALTHOUGH THERE IS SCIENCE INVOLVED.

SR101 is one of the best steels going for my needs in a chopper. Old steel with new technology rolled in. It works. You just have to learn how to work with it.
 
MHAWG, we've established I've got the technique down-that's why I brought it up in the first place. I have the technique down with these stones, which is why I want to use them so bad.


Terry,
There's a difference between 'better quality' and 'different intended purpose'. My stones are NOT poor quality. These stones HAVE been 'best for me' for three years now, and I've learned on them. I like them. This knife is the first wrench in the cog, so to speek. I HAVE something that will REMOVE steel at a quicker rate- a nicholson file. The RATE of steel removal isn't the problem, it's the HARDNESS. The knife's steel is as hard as the bastard file, so nothing is going to happen even though it's meant to remove lots of material fast.



-I have a dozen or more knives in the 20-25 dollar price range.
-I have various sharpening tools. Arkansas soft stone, 4 hard stones, a Lansky puck, and a number of files, though the go to is my nicholson course/X course.
-I've researched all the crazy back and forth crap in the Maker's section on sharpening knives
-I've been practicing, have screwed up a hundred times, and am at the point now where I have become very consistant.
-Again, higher quality and different purpose are two entirely different things.


Knifenut, I posted this the other day...

I get what you're saying... I guess I'll have to pick up some low grit wet-and-dry on the way home from school tonight and see if that will change the pace at all. I'd get one of those 7 dollar DMT XCourse deals but I don't know how long they'd last... that's not alot of surface area for working with a good amount of hard stock removal.
Click to expand...
 
Are you saying you don't have a stone that will cut the steel and allow you to do the initial profile? :confused:
 
I had the same problem with D2 since I was using an old carborundum(sic) stone I have worn smooth. I got a course/medium course or fine, can't remember which, DMT diamond hone in 8 inches by 2 3/4 inches and now I sharpen anything I own.

Call it what you want. I have no clue since I am just the salesman. :)

That is what works for me. Sounds like others have found a way that works better for them that may or may not involve diamond hones. Hopefully that helps.
 
Well, like I mentioned before the norton stone would probably be your ideal choice. You can can choose your flavor online or home depot sells the economy stone for 5 bucks. It works great I have one.

These dual sided Coarse/fine stones are around 100/300grit and will remove metal at the same rate as a DMT XXC on this steel.

Also, your confusing hardness with wear resistance. What your feeling on the stone is not the hardness but the wear resistance and the tight grain structure of the steel. Only when you fully understand steels, abrasives, burr formation, and the "feel" of sharpening can you start making ballpark guesses of hardness. Its the one thing you really can't feel in sharpening.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top