Stability of Spyderco Lock

F

FullerH

Joined
Nov 25, 1998
Messages
12,632
The StarMate is my absolute favorite knife, closely followed by the Military, but I have long heard about the "instability" of the liner lock system of blade lock, as used on these knives. I note that you use the eccentric pivot to maintain optimum fit between the blade tang and the liner lock and I also note that the only time that I have ever seen a liner lock fail was on a cheap copy (not necessarily a POS from the PRC). I wonder if anyone has ever had a problem with a properly adjusted liner lock failing on either a Military or a StarMate. In this regard, I refer readers to a post in the General Discussion forum by Chariot on whether locks on folders make any difference.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
 
As far as I am concerned the Spyderco implementation of the liner lock is the best in the industry. The eccentric pivot and the radiused lock ramp (on the blade) make the liner lock the strongest I have seen. The actual liner is made of steel (compared to most of the others that are titanium)which adds to the durability and strength of the lockup.

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Dale Richmond
AKTI Number A000949
 
Only on the Viele have I noticed problems with the linerlock. When I handle one I have to fight the feeling of flicking it. Then I have to pick up my Starmate and relieve myself.
 
Hugh, I'll echo your observation that the only liner lock I've ever had fail was on a cheap knife (Fury, I think) that had a liner so thin and soft it could be folded by hand.

I have full confidence in all of my Spyder liner locks, particularly those on the Wegner (can you say "bank vault") and Starmate.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
the liner lock on the zytel crickets is kinda iffy... at least on the models I've played with. no problems with the aluminum model though.
 
Fuller :

I wonder if anyone has ever had a problem with a properly adjusted liner lock failing on either a Military or a StarMate.
Click to expand...

The Military I had was unstable in a tight grip. I had it sent back and looked at which didn't solve the problem. It is influenced by several factors, the amount of force you can exert, the size of your hands and how "fleshy" they are.


-Cliff
 
Spyderco is as good as any company at making sound liner locks. However, no company gets it perfect every time. As a general rule, I feel it's a good idea to read the Liner Lock Test FAQ and perform all the tests, regardless of who made your knife.

Joe
 
Hmmm COMPRESSION LOCK time..LOL.Ok I've never had a SPYDIE lock fail on me..I've seen a few roughed up..and even a few that should have stayed home..BUT they are overall the best locks made,,no matter if lock-back, liner or of course the new compression lock!
Some of you want bullet proof even if thats not whats called for..Want bullet proof? Get a MBC series knife..the locks are bULLET PROOF!..built tough to be used and abused..other than that? hey the locks work as designed...
 
So far so good! Starmate, Wegner and Military living up to my expectations because the locks stays locked!
biggrin.gif


Sam

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have spydies
will travel...
 
Hi Bram. As Bob Terzuola says, "The only bulletproof folder is a fixed blade". But, IMO, we do pay more attention to lock reliability and strength than most of our competitors.

Hi Cliff. I'm in the process of redesigning the "lock release opening" on the Military model. Any input? Keeping in mind the need for release capability with gloves on. My current mods have the opening going more narrow than shallow.

Also, I would like to, (in the near future) have a discussion regarding the locks on the Gunting trainers that you have.

sal
 
I'm sorry to say that - but ALL the liner lock spydies I have - failed the wack-them-on-the-carpet test.

The starmate did - and Scorpio said he'll replace it - did you hear that Sal?

Shabaria snapped so fast I almost had my fingers turned to thingies (C - Bram)

The Lum - also failed.

Is it just my bad luck?

BM - the CQC-7 NEVER failed.

This is exactly the reason I just ordered a pair of left and right AFCK (just love the spyder hole you know...)

When the Gunting arrives - well, that's a whole new ball game...

 
Hi Blilious,
After I have read your post I immediately whacked all my liner lock equipped spydercos (Wegner, Military and Starmate) against my carpet and no one failed. Do I have better knives or worse carpet?
confused.gif


Hi Sal,
Military lock release opening seems to be just right for me, maybe I would like it a small bit shallower only.
However I would like very much if Starmate would be redesigned according this proposition. I have hell desire to do it myself but I like my Starmate too much and I do not believe my bladesmithing capabilities.
 
Sergiusz Mitin!

Maybe I just hit them harder???
smile.gif


Anyway – the BM I tested in the same way – did not fail – and I tried to hit them in the same way…

Sal – Scorpio said there could be a way to adjust the Starmate’s lock – is it so? And if so, could you please explain how to do it – so I can save on the hassle of sending you the knife– and do it myself (or by Scorpio?)

10x in advance.
 
Concerning the Military liner and it closing under pressure, I first have to state that it does require a decent amount of force for this to happen. In light grips it is fine. To get it to become unstable I would estimate that it is somewhere between 100 and 150 lbs need to be applied to the handle in order for the liner to grip into my flesh enough to allow it to be moved.

One way to get around it would be simply make the liner more resistant to being moved. Of course this also makes it harder to close when you want. If you removed the teeth and recessed it, this would eliminate the problem and of course also make closing it with gloves next to impossible. I think the optimal solution would be to just make it in two variations. But of course this adds more models which is something you have been trying to avoid.

Concering the Gunting and the compression lock. It is also prone to the same release but I have to use a different grip. If I hold the knife tip up with the edge pointing towards me. My index finger can catch the lock in the middle of the pad and a tight grip will disengage the lock. It is not easy though because the liner has to completely to the side for the blade to unlock and the last .1 - .2 of a mm it has to travel is very difficult. The Military required significantly less force to cause a release. I would estimate the Gunting to need about 150 to 200 lbs to open.

This grip by the way on the Gunting actually has a practical use, I often use it whittling. If I angle the blade so it is about 45 degrees I can open it easier, with much less force but that grip makes so sense as far as any use I know of though.

Note these closes are with the #2 Gunting. This cannot happen on the #1 as the same action engages the lock tighter (the liner is on the oppsite scale). I tried it with my left hand on the #1 but could not do it. My left hand is about 25% weaker than my right.

Concerning the release described for the gunting, the hand positioning necessary to accomplish it puts the lower horn in contact with my palm and when I white knuckle the knife that horn sinks in well and would immediately alert me under normal use that my grip was off. Once I shift my grip up my index finger moves off of the liner and I can't disengage it with a squeeze. In high stress situations I am not positive that I would notice this though.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 08-01-2000).]
 
Cliff,

Have you tried the spine whack test on the Gunting? I'm interested to know how it stacks up next to the Axis and Rolling locks.

Axel
 
Blilous - Very unusual to say the least. I would have to see the locks to actually determine the problem. I don't think you could "adjust" out the problem on the Starmate. Adjustment governs the location of the lock on the tang. Unless the lock is not engaging the tang, then adjustment would help. The tang has an offset arc ramp. It is the offset that makes the lock so reliable. If the tang is not properly engaging the lock, then the offset cannot do its job. I am afraid we'll have to get it back.

sal
 
gee Cliff. never occured to me to hold it edge in tip up...especially for whittling...
NEVER would I hold it that way...hhmm thanks for the insight...
 
Concerning the tip up, edge in grip, I was skimming a magazine at the book store which had an article on the Sigarms knife tactics course. The instructor prefers to hold the knife in this manner as opposed to edge out. He also prefers edge in when held in the reverse grip. His thinking is that if the lock gives, then the blade will impact the fleshy part of the hand instead of the fingers. He also feels that the sharp edge is better employed in this manner. He goes on to say that animals' claws, etc. are set up this way.

Axel
 
Sal - 10x for your answer.

I do not use allot of force in my testing - just a good wack on the back - nothing special.

Anyway - I would have to wait for Scorpio to go to the states or for him to get a new batch of Starmates.

The reason is simple - sending a knife worth 150US$ insured to the states for repair/change would cost me around 50 $!!!!

I know it - cause I just did it , so I'd rather wait.

As for the rest of the spidies I have - you know how much I love the shabaria - but still - it snaps closed so fast...

As for the Lum - I did not see you make any remark regarding it.


Bram - will you try to be serious for once in your life... on second thought - don't be serious - you'll end up a being a boring whining lawyer like the rest of us...


 
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