Stacked Handle Advice

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nailcreek

Joined
Sep 21, 2003
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First knife, guys .... so be gentle ;) I'm looking to make a knife with a stacked leather, brass, fiber and buffalo horn handle. Should I glue the individual pieces together before fitting it to the tang?
 
...were stacked rough and with wet glue, the threaded pommel cranked down tight and then shaped in place. Lots of glue, really messy, don't lick your fingers.:D

J-
 
I do quite a few Scagel-inspired knives, and have had great success with stacked handles. I personally feel that it's one of the most durable handle types to make. You can also sand it down through progressively finer grits, to about 400 or 600, and the buff it, and a stacked leather handle will take a nice polish. I make mine by soaking the leather disks in water for at least 24 hours (mine usually stay in the water for a week or so, due to my annoyoingly short attention span...). I cut a slit/hole in them and test fit them to the tang first, though. After soaking, I stack them up and clamp them between wood blocks, in an adjustable bar clamp. (Greg Brannon's site has a link to another site that shows how to build a simple, inexpensive press for doing this more efficiently, but I haven't gotten one built yet. The clamps/wood blocks will work fine, though...). Tighten the clamps as tight as you can, keeping the stack of leather disks aligned with each other, so that they are pressed evenly. You should see a good amount of water squeeze out during this process. Once tightened, set the clamps aside until the disks are THOROUGHLY dry - leave them set out in the sun all day if you can. Once the disk stacks are dry, they are ready to be made into a handle. (Note - the leather disks get "thinned" considerably by using this method, so be sure to have more on hand than you think you're likely to need.). Tape your knife blade in several layers of masking tape, and some brown "kraft paper" if you have any, and wrap that all in a rag. Clamp point-down in a vise. I stack the disks on one at a time, and "paint" both sides of each with 60min. marine-grade epoxy. Use plenty, but not an overabundance. Stack the disks, buffalo horn, spacer material, brass, etc... in whatever sequence you have in mind, coating both sides of each piece, and ending with a buttcap. That is usually secured and tightened in place with a nut. I've rigged a simple jig out of some extra O1 that will just barely slip over most of my tangs, and can be tightened down with small bar clamps to secure the washers without a nut being threaded onto the tang. This allows me to use different styles of buttcap, which are epoxied on. I then use pins to finish securing the handles. I'm sure other makers use other techniques to do stacked handles. I've also heard that rubber contact cement, and Gorilla Glue are good for stacked handles. Once the handle is in place, finished, pinned, etc... and it's all dry, I shape it using a combination of coping saw, stationary belt sander, files/rasps, and LOTS of hand sanding, finishing off with a good buffing - usually with tripoli rouge. That's how I make a stacked handle. Hope this information proves useful, and good luck on your knife!
 
I forgot to mention in my last post, don't glue everything together before putting it on the tang - glue it up ON the tang:foot: Also, you might check out this site for an example of really nice knives, with really nice stacked handles.:D

http://www.treemanknives.com/
 
Thanks ... I would think that soaking them would make them more pliable for using Gorilla Glue ... Does getting the leather wet have an adverse affect when using epoxy?

I took a look at your work ~ great web site ... and beautiful craftsmanship! While I'm not a real fan of the Scagel blade style, I really do like the handles. I guess I find the stacked leather easier to handle when it's cold out when field dressing a deer.
 
nailcreek, I think you missed the word dry after soaking the leather and compressing it. Even dry leather will have enough residual water to set off Gorilla Glue. Bennett isn't gluing wet leather...
 
nailcreek said:
Thanks ... I would think that soaking them would make them more pliable for using Gorilla Glue ... Does getting the leather wet have an adverse affect when using epoxy?

I took a look at your work ~ great web site ... and beautiful craftsmanship! While I'm not a real fan of the Scagel blade style, I really do like the handles. I guess I find the stacked leather easier to handle when it's cold out when field dressing a deer.
Click to expand...
I would pass on the gorilla glue and use contact cement on the leather washers, EXCEPT for other stacked material surfaces that are not leather sections. I don't use rubber cement, I use regular contact cement for the leather washers after the wet form washers have dried.
Use Brownells AcraGlas gel on the surfaces that contact your antler, metal, or other surfaces that are not leather washers. You should leave the leather washer surface that is going to contact the non leather surfaces clean of contact cement and use the 'glas on those surfaces.
I use a bolt through a center hole cut or drilled in the center of the leather washers, and steel washers, and crank the wet leather washers tightly together. I use vegetable tanned tooling leather, of course.
When the clamped washers have dried they should be placed onto the knife tang EXACTLY the same order as they came off the clamping bolt, same surfaces contacting the same surfaces. Because of the irregularities of the leather, take my advice if you want good joints between the leather washers.
I have an oversized tang hole in the washers and Acra Glas the leather washers and handle sections on the tang. Be sure to fill all voids with the glas, buttering the tang before the handle assembly and filling any voids as you assemble the various stacked components. If some 'glas is forced out between the leather washers when you crank the whole mess down on the tang, that's good too. Some 'glas between any washers is a plus.
I grind the stacked handles on my belt grinder, and easy job. Go slow, the belt will really eat the leather as quick as it does body parts such as your knuckles.
Finish with the usual preferred leather sealer or finish.
 
Thanks for the feedback, nailcreek - but the knives on that site are made by Jim "Treeman" Behring. I find his work very inspirational (as well as the work of other makers). Also, John had some really good points in his post. Be sure to let the washers dry completely before gluing them, and be sure to "butter" the knife tang with epoxy or Acraglas before securing the handle, for a really secure finish.
 
John, when you write about "contact cement", could you offer a brand name? I'm not sure what you're talking about ... the only contact cement I'm vaguely familiar with would be rubber cement.
 
Nail,
I use barge glue on my leather washers and devcon epoxy for the rest of the handle materials.
It's a contact cement you can get through online leather stores. If you have a local Hobby Lobby store they used to carry it in small quantities.
God bless,
Stitch
 
Here is how I did mine.

1. I cut leather spacers to size and soaked them in water long enough to make it wet.

2. Stacked and clamped them in the bench vise in about 1 1/2" stacks to wring out the water and compress the leather.

3. Took mini stack out of the vise, seperated and glued(I used a good quality woodworkers glue), restacked and clamped in vise overnight.

4. Remove from vise and let them dry thoroughly. This only took about 3 days in the house during the winter with all the "dry heat".

Make as many of these mini blocks as you need to make handles. Heck...make up a bunch and use them as needed. This is a good use of scrap leather.

When you get ready to use them, you can drill and work them like regular blocks of wood. I have only done this once and here is a thread I started on using polyeurathane glue to finish the handle...OOOPS. Well the handle is still good but I would rather have used epoxy to finish it out. I may still take it back apart and redo it with epoxy. The overall bond between spacers and between mini blocks is holding up well. Just dont use the poly glue to fill spaces that inevitably show up between tang and leather stack.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=449345
 
Thanks guys ... I do appreciate all the excellent advice. Some of this stuff is pretty daunting at first glance, but with some of your comments, makes it ALMOST look easy :D
 
nailcreek said:
John, when you write about "contact cement", could you offer a brand name? I'm not sure what you're talking about ... the only contact cement I'm vaguely familiar with would be rubber cement.
Click to expand...
One good one is Loctite contact cement, not a rubber cement.
 
A variation on the theme:

Cut leather into squares and then glue (epoxy is what Ive used) and clamp up into blocks. Drill or chisel out tang hole in each block, do the whole handle as a dry fit. Butter up tang add spacers etc and blocks (in the order you dry fitted them) with epoxy between. I tap the end of the tang and use a nut and washer to tighten it all up. I cover the nut with an end cap after.

I havent tried doing the wet leather thing; this has worked well for me in a limited number of knives (I only haft knives for myself and gifts)
 
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