Stacked handles

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
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I'm trying to learn a new technique... how to make stacked handles.

After reviewing the knives made and sold by the Swedish makers that I've been buying blades from, I discovered that they favor this technique, and I want the knife I'm working on now to be as nice (and authentic) as I can make it.

For those who are unfamiliar with the concept, check out this representative sample of bolsters and handles using this method.

You'll notice that the bolsters are often made with something other than metal. This was one of the things that attracted me to this approach. You might also notice that the individual elements in the stack are separated by spacers, either metal or the usual plastic spacer material. The elements involved seem to generally include ivory, bone and wood of various types. These are the same elements I am attempting to combine.

I can wrap my head around the design principles pretty well, but where I'm getting stalled is in the assembly techniques. I think I've worked out an approach. The simplest would seem to be to glue the elements together in a mostly-complete shape and then do final sanding and finishing after mounting the assembled stack to the tang. One concern I have about this approach would be the strength of the assembled stack.

Putting my head into the problem of strengthening the stack, I came to the thought that welding a bolt to the end of the tang would allow me to mount the handle with a screw down butt piece, possibly hiding the nut in a piece of ivory. This is what brought me to the point of feeling compelled to obtain welding equipment and learning the skills. So I spent some time studying welding and have come to the point where I believe I'm ready to attempt welding a bold to the end of a file (for practice). I'll probably do that this weekend. If that goes well I will have the confidence to do it on the knife, once I make the final determination that it is needed.

Which brings me to the point of this post. I'm looking for your opinions. Am I overcomplicating this process? Do I really need to be able to screw down the assembled stack to give is structural integrity? Or will the epoxy alone be adequate to hold the handle together?

One other thought I had was to embed guide pins along the length of the stack, both to align the pieces and to keep them from twisting off during final finish. Is that really useful or necessary? My though was that at the very least such holes might provide an additional channel for the epoxy to run through to create a stronger bond.

Am I overthinking this? Or am I missing something important?

Any guidance or suggestions would be welcomed.

- Greg
 
I read somewhere to get a long bolt or some threadall about the size of the tang, put some large washers on each end, build your stack, gluing each layer together, then tighten down the nut(s). Once everything dries, it's a solid piece to be done up like any other stick tang.

Caveat: I'm a n00b, and have never made that type of handle.
 
The one problem I can envision with that approach is that the stack becomes fused with the "threadall". I'm not sure how to separate them after the epoxy dries.

That does lead me to another approach. I could build the stack on a wooden dowel and epoxy everything into place. Once it dried, I could then drill out the space for the tang from the dowel, and then treat it like any other block handle...

- Greg
 
I've built several multi segment hidden tang knives.The only problem is if the material isn't stable enough,as in wood not dry or horn still green.

I use Acuraglass as an epoxy,make sure each piece is very clean,Any oily wood needs to be cleaned with Acetone and a white cotton cloth untill you stop seeing color.I sand each piece with 100 grit on a glass plate and fit them together making sure I can't see any crack when held to a strong light.

I cut notches in my tang and also use a cut inclusions into the sides of my tang slots in the pieces.

I have a block mounted with two all threaded rods over the top of a small vice so that I can clamp my blade in the vice and compress the pieces with the 2x4 block by tightening it down with the rods and nuts.

Acuraglass is the best epoxy for this IMHO because it will only shrink one tenth of one percent.It is impact resistant and has a long track record.
 
I think you may be over complicating it a little. Your idea of welding a threaded rod to the end of the tang is a fine idea. That is what I do. If you don't want to use a butt piece you can just put a piece of steel in its place and tighten it all up with a nut. Take it back off after epoxy has set. The epoxy will hold everything tight without any slipping no need for pins. Shape up the stack last. I've done a few Scagel style knives this way and all have worked out fine. Even though you may not use all leather you can Google "stacked leather knife handle tutorial" and its all the same. Hope this helps.
 
Sorry for the double post I can't edit from my phone. I wanted to add that you need to dip each piece in epoxy to get a good bond. It will be messy when squeezed together but since your finishing after no big deal. Also of course you need a butt piece of some kind to hide the threaded end the way I described it you could use another material besides metal. Good idea is to pin it though.
 
I don't think you are over-thinking it at all.

I've always been told that epoxy should only be used as a sealant and you should have a strong mechanical fit first. The compression of everything together will make a much stronger handle than just glue, where the handle could just snap off sideways.

Alignment pins are very helpful in lining things up, if you can, why not?
You will wish you did, if something goes twisty on the last turn of that clamp.

Make up some sort of jig to keep everything straight when you are brazing, it's so much simpler when you can work on it and not have to juggle hot bits.

Indian George has shown photos of how he does it.
Search is up again, but i didn't find it right away.
He files a female dovetail shape into the tang and a fitted male into the bolt head, before brazing them together. This make a lotta sense to me.

If you understood all your reading then you already know to stick with a black alloy screw and skip galvanized and stainless.

the blade is already heat treated carbon steel that you don't want to heat treat again right ?
Metallurgically this may give you trouble in the heat affected zone, grain growth from overheating, stress fractures and such....
Other people are smarter on these point than I am
 
tryppyr said:
The one problem I can envision with that approach is that the stack becomes fused with the "threadall". I'm not sure how to separate them after the epoxy dries.

That does lead me to another approach. I could build the stack on a wooden dowel and epoxy everything into place. Once it dried, I could then drill out the space for the tang from the dowel, and then treat it like any other block handle...

- Greg
Click to expand...

Wrap the all-thread with wax paper and you may get it to just slide out?
 
First, I want to thank everyone for the replies. Very helpful. I think I have a good idea of how to proceed now.

One thing I have been concerned about is damaging the temper of the blade while brazing the threaded rod into place. One mitigating element is that I've seen some writings that suggest this won't be a problem because you actually want the tang to be less hardened/brittle than the blade to improve its flexibility/strength. I'm certainly no expert, but since I now plan to braze the rod to the tang I definitely hope that is true.

I'll put some more time into this over the weekend and, if I make any significant progress, I'll post some pictures of the process. May not be Indian George quality, but it might help another newbie looking to do something different.

- Greg
 
consider using a vice that has been modified so that the vice jaw has an open cylinder into which the blade slides through to the bolster on one end and the butt end of the handle is pressed by the jaw at the other end.....by analogy, a stack of wide washers or a pipe that accomodates the blade and allows pressure to be applied to the bolster on one end and the butt on the other.
 
Most of the scandinavian puukkos and leukus like you are describing seem to be a 3/4 or 4/5 through tang- with half circles in the tang helping to hold the epoxy.

With a no metal design (this is done to prevent getting your hands stuck to -15F metal) I'd got for a solid press fit of the bolster piece, 85 shaped. clean up the front, them tape it really well and start stacking your unfinished layers on - all the way up. I drill generous holes in the materials and sand so that all layers fit up before I start hosing it down with epoxy. then just clamp it.taking some hardwood 1x2 and cutting a slot for the blade in one piece gives you a good, balanced 4 corners to clamp up.(use leather padding on the bolster contact points)


When I'm doing metal, I most often use steel front and back and just pin the whole thing together by peening the rear of the tang nice and tight.
 
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