Stainless San Mai Carbon Core Questions (Update Pics Added)

S.Grosvenor

S.Grosvenor

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I've tried and failed now three times trying to forge weld 416 to w2 core, I seem to get a partial weld (60% ish) then either one side or the other will partially peel off the core:mad::grumpy:

I'm trying the kerosene thing by welding it all up except one end then soaking in kero for 20min or so then welding up the end leaving a 1/4" unwelded for a vent.

Was thinking of welding up the entire thing without any kerosene and try to weld it that way, I have enough steel to try one more time, has anyone tried this or is there something else I could try?

forge is running @ 2400+

Appreciate any help
 
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I helped do a 416/W2/416 San Mai Billet a couple months ago. Mind you I've never done forge welding myslef... just helped...

Chuck surface ground the pieces, clamped them in the post vise and welded them up all the way around. As far as I know he only dry welds. The blade he forged was at the OKCA show on his table and he'd clay quenched it so the San Mai/Hamon looked like a double Hamon....pretty sweet and well worth the effort you are putting into it. I believe his forge was running pretty hot too...
Hopefully he'll chime in and help.
 
Try it dry man. I've not heard of using kero for stainless san mai, just weld and leave a little hole for oxygen to escape.
 
Ask Karl Andersen, too (he's a member here). I recently examined a stainless/1095 san mai blade he forged, and it was stunning. He explained his welding and forging processes to me, but I'll refrain from repeating it for fear of getting it wrong or misinterpreting what he taught me.
 
I do not know of anyone doing the kerosene or wet method for stainless sanmai. The stainless develops chromium carbides so fast it will not weld properly unless you are very good or very lucky. The better the finish on the mating surfaces the easier it will weld. This is why I surface ground all my mating surfaces. Then I weld up all the seams with a mig. You can use a stick or a tig, whatever you want. You can just grind the mating surfaces with your belt or take a pass on the mill and this will work. But like I said above, the better the surface finish and the flatter it is with full contact the easier and lower the temp has to be to make a good weld. Now I do get the billet super hot, like 2500f but that is just for the weld and initial draw. After that I go to welding temps in the 2300f range. There is a great WIP on here someplace, can't remember right off hand but it tells you basically the same things.
 
Thanks for the tips , I'm heading out to give it another shot, I'll post pictures of results, good bad or otherwise.
 
Well had Good tune's, at least 1 cup of coffee before I started and a forge that was reading 'HI' on the temp gauge (it does that after 2400°) Weld felt pretty good, stretched it out twice it's length and ground off the Mig Welds, it was shortly after that I watched it de-laminate :dejection::grief:.

Good thing is it looks alot better than the last one and I might be able to use some of it for other projects. I'll post pictures when the camera gets charged up.
 
How did you prep the surfaces?? I would go hotter if possible. I weld SS sanmai at EEEE on readout which it does at 2500f. So I think you might be a little low for stainless. I was looking for an inexpensive PID but the co I used to get mine from no longer lists one that goes that high with a type K TC. I have a request in to another guy and will let you know the response.
 
A C Richards said:
How did you prep the surfaces?? I would go hotter if possible. I weld SS sanmai at EEEE on readout which it does at 2500f. So I think you might be a little low for stainless. I was looking for an inexpensive PID but the co I used to get mine from no longer lists one that goes that high with a type K TC. I have a request in to another guy and will let you know the response.
Click to expand...

Thank you Sir, prep was laying against the ceramic plenum running a 80grit belt, it was pretty.
The heat makes sense why it's close and I get partial welds. Here are a few pictures.

Picture414.jpg

Picture413.jpg

Picture412.jpg

Picture417.jpg


It looks much better than my previous attempts

Picture419.jpg

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Work Area
Picture421.jpg
 
Do some grinding on your billet to see how far the delam goes. Try taking the prep one step further by going to 220grit and then get it hotter. Here is a tc that will go to 2500f with a type K TC. It is not really recommended as it will not last as long. I get a few months out of my TC which probably works out to 10-20 forging days. It does not say it will go to 2500 in the lit but they assured me it does, and mine does too.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?m..._id=14&zenid=fd381481ba4d389ef1986de88e8244a7

This is were I get mine. Great service and reasonable prices.
 
DUDE, that is a lot of work with a power hammer and looking at your site you are doing this by HAND?!? Wow that's dedication.
 
A C Richards said:
DUDE, that is a lot of work with a power hammer and looking at your site you are doing this by HAND?!? Wow that's dedication.
Click to expand...

By HAND:eek:? No, mayyybee 25yrs ago when I was a young x-paratrooper with more energy than time, I use a semi restored 25lb Little Giant. My reference to old fashioned being old school type tools, a 1920'ish anvil, a 1920'ish power hammer, files and sandpaper. I will have to make that more clear on the site.

Thank you for the link I appreciate it.
 
I think I'll get what I was after, I'll find out this week after I ht it and nothing comes apart.

Thanks for the help and suggestions I truly appreciate it.

The pictures were of a quick sand to 180, then two 30sec etch cycles to see what would happen
I really like the white ghost shadow below the stainless...hopefully when I pull it out of the oil it doesn't pop apart.

Picture462.jpg

Picture461.jpg
 
That is very nice. Good luck on the hr and will have my fingers crossed for you.
Don't think it will be a problem though.

Great job
 
Woo hoo!!

Looking good! Looks like the delaminated portions were all at the edges?

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

Chuck, I had my new Auberin PID up to 2450 before turning the forge down when i first fired it Must be the one they recommended?
 
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