Stainless Steel Folders

T

TK9477

Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
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Okay - this maybe a newbie question but why are pretty much all folders made using a stainless blade?

Granted - they don't rust as easy but they're also harder and brittle. This in turn lends itself to a compound going which is more difficult to maintain and less sharp than a Scandinavian grind.

Okay - it holds the edge for longer but...

Dunno - just wondering
 
That's an insanely uninformed opinion you've got going there.

Stainless can range all the way from AEB-L and 12C27 which are razorblade steels which are sometimes called "Stainless versions of Carbon Steel" all the way up to insanely hard steels like ZDP198 hardened up to rockwell 65.

And the idea that a non scandi grind is LESS sharp than a scandi grind is an interesting myth perpetuated by "bushcrafters" who do nothing but whittle wood and batonning.

The advantage of stainless over carbon steel is that is stains less.....that's all that can be generally said about it. After that it's all depending on which steel in which application and heat treated in which way you're talking about.
 
Like I said - I'm a newbie but also educated to a point.

A basic cross-section of a compound grind has a flatter angle than a Scandinavian grind & thus will struggle to be sharper.

Additionally ( again I'm no expert) but hardness has a trade off against flexibility/tensile strength correct? Or am I still way off? I thought that was why harder blades went compound? To avoid chipping?

And hey - bushcraft folders are pretty much stainless too.
 
Ty
LX_Emergency said:
That's an insanely uninformed opinion you've got going there.

Stainless can range all the way from AEB-L and 12C27 which are razorblade steels which are sometimes called "Stainless versions of Carbon Steel" all the way up to insanely hard steels like ZDP198 hardened up to rockwell 65.

And the idea that a non scandi grind is LESS sharp than a scandi grind is an interesting myth perpetuated by "bushcrafters" who do nothing but whittle wood and batonning.

The advantage of stainless over carbon steel is that is stains less.....that's all that can be generally said about it. After that it's all depending on which steel in which application and heat treated in which way you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Noot,
Thanks for the perfect response to this guys uninformed question.
My stainless steel folders will CUT YOU BAD!
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Ty

Noot,
Thanks for the perfect response to this guys uninformed question.
My stainless steel folders will CUT YOU BAD!
Click to expand...

...and I'm not saying they're not sharp or fit for purpose - this isn't a 'my knife is sharper than your knife' argument.

Just wondered why as I'm after a Kirby Lambert Blitz or Olamic Wayfarer and want all the info I can get.

I'm also worried I don't have the skills & tools to sharpen them correctly.

Please help inform this uninformed bushcrafter
 
TK9477 said:
Like I said - I'm a newbie but also educated to a point.

A basic cross-section of a compound grind has a flatter angle than a Scandinavian grind & thus will struggle to be sharper.

Additionally ( again I'm no expert) but hardness has a trade off against flexibility/tensile strength correct? Or am I still way off? I thought that was why harder blades went compound? To avoid chipping?

And hey - bushcraft folders are pretty much stainless too.
Click to expand...
Reality is not as simple as that. Spend some time delving into metallurgical articles, maybe spend some time in the Shop talk subforum here on BF and you'll find out that there are a LOT more factors to steel than the addition of Nitrogen or Chromium that determine all the qualities of a steel.

And about cross sections...that all depends on stock thickness, grind height, etc etc.

The world is not black and white. Steel is not Stainless and Carbon.
 
Fair comment but I've tried & failed at getting my head around the real in depth metallurgy stuff - hence my basic high-level overview.

A good answer I came across is because folders are generally kept in your pocket carbon steel will be much more prone to corrosion.

I've nothing against stainless but just worried if I get a high-end custom folder I don't have the skills to sharpen it.
 
Yep, on the corrosion. This is why Pohan stopped using tool steel on his folders.
A good HT on a good SS will cut like heck!
 
Start working on your sharpening skills and then go for stainless. I have 3 stainless blades that are a pure joy: S30V, S35VN, and 154CM.

Give it a go!

Eric
 
TK9477, most folks will not understand your question, a few will... There are some very good stainless blade steels these days, but I much prefer Carbon Steel myself. W2 & 1086M, or damascus.

There are folders being made with carbon blades, ya just have to search a bit to find them.
 
People keep buying my stainless carry folders, so I often have an old electrician's knife in my pocket- that little screwdriver blade is surprisingly handy, and keeps me from abusing the cutting blade.
Anyway, it's old school, carbon steel, and it actually doesn't rust from being carried in my pocket. I rub a little oil on it very occasionally, and it just works and works and always looks nice. The plan is to make a run of these so I have the benefits of a locking pry/screwdriver blade and an example of what carbon steel should look like when it's used and cared for.
What it comes down to is, use what you want, don't worry about what someone else's taste tells them is good. If you want a "carbon" folder, there's anything from simple old boy scout knives to Hanson's gems. Why not?
 
Difficulty of sharpening depends on the alloy and heat treatment. Diamond plates from DMT or similar will cut anything. A Norton Crystolon silicon carbide stone will cut most any steel easily as well. Ceramic plates are good too. There's a vast array of sharpening gear out there. I paid less than $20 for an 8" Norton Crystolon stone that'll outlast me and probably my as yet unborn kids and grandkids, assuming no one drops it.

Blade grinds are done for various reasons, but most of it has to do with aesthetics. There are many arguments for and against various blade grinds, but in the end most people aren't going to notice a huge difference.

There are a ridiculous number of non-stainless and stainless alloys with various properties that changed based on heat treatment method. I own and use everything from 1095 in GEC slipjoints to S110V in a Spyderco Native 5. It's all good, just different. I patina my slipjoints and if I'm carrying them regularly I'll sharpen once a week on the Spyderco ultra fine stones, then apply about 3 drops of mineral oil total, one each to the blade, joints and handle once a week. Then I wipe it down on a rag. That's about all the maintenance it needs and it's good to go.
 
Hadn't really thought about until know but I've carried a knife for 45 years now and all but a year or so they've been carbon steel. I wouldn't care anything but carbon knives only time I've ever had one rust was when left wet . That was no falt of the knife I get all the credit for that. The patina they get over time is all good to me hell I think its personality.
As far a maintenance goes all I ever do is wipe them off every know and then with a dry rag. Only oil ever touches them is when I fell em get a little gritty when opened I put a drop of oil in the pivot.
Some one told me once if stainless was ment to be a cutting they'd make files with it.

Cliff
 
"Some one told me once if stainless was ment to be a cutting they'd make files with it."
That's a nice line, Cliff :)
It is truth that ss has been developed in many ways and up today there is huge selection of stainless which will make a nice cutting instrument, but they are complicated and very demanding in terms of heat treatment.
That's one of the reasons why i prefer working with carbon steels; they are easier to heat treat and to be sharpened the only way i like, on the whetstones.
Also, in my preferences an edge needs to be hair popping, and i don't buy the wear resistence hype, so i believe that carbon steels are not behind the new stainless aside the stain-less thing :)
TK...: As was suggested, also i recommend to explore the basics of metallurgy, it is a fascinating ground and will help you to understand the specific qualities of the different steels, moving further from the old, surpassed discrimination between carbon steels and the early stainless.
 
Cliff Parker said:
Some one told me once if stainless was ment to be a cutting they'd make files with it.

Cliff
Click to expand...
They would....except carbon steel is cheaper to make things out of and the added value isn't worth the extra cost associated.

Really...stainless is no different from carbon except with some stain resistance when it comes to user knives. It all depends on WHAT STAINLESS.

Untill you know which alloy you're actually talking about then no one can really tell you anything other than "it's less likely to rust".


Want a soft stainless that'll be easy to sharpen? Get AUS8, or 8cr13Mov, or 440B or 12C27 etc etc etc.

Want a carbon/tool steel that's difficult to sharpen but will cut for a long time? Get some A11 or YXR7.

Untill you really know what alloys we're talking about and comparing this is a completely useless discussion.
 
Well, people are coming up with all sorts of examples....but very few of them are quoting any facts. mr. Hanson is one of the exceptions as he actually talks about a specific alloy (W2) that he's well known for.

Some Carbon steels are good.
Some stainless steels are good.

It all depends on which alloy and which application.
 
Right. Well all those are excellent steels. Except for I don't know about K720, but I'm assuming that HCS stands for High Carbon Steel. Looked it up just now: http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=k720

Only has .5 Chrome in it. So yeah, not a stainless. Carbon content just below 1%. Sounds like a good carbon steel.

Depending on the heat treat, anywhere up to about rockwell 59-60 they should do excellent in a bushcraft setting. Over 60 you might encounter more problems with brittleness.

Speaking in general without any practical experience with these steels but just looking at the composition. They should all do well. With the two stainless variants having the upper hand in edge holding and the K720 having the upper hand in toughness.

But as long as you don't TRY to break the knife they could all do quite well in a bushcraft setting.

My personal preference would probably go to one of the stainless variants. But that's because I know what I should and shouldn't do with a knife and the ease of stainless is a nice added bonus.

For someone who's more abusive of their blades I'd recommend the K720 depending on the heat treatment.
 
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