Stainless steel vertical forge build.... w/pics and regular updates

R

rjfm1972

Joined
Jan 13, 2013
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So I have begun my vertical forge project. I decided to go with stainless steel just because I can (I work in a shop with access to pretty much all the stainless I can ever need). I didn't want something too big or too small, so I went with something that seemed just right. 14" diameter, 1/4" wall 304 ss. It will have a 20" height (including the 2 1/2" thick lid, not including the 6" legs). It will be lined with 2" of ceramic blanket, and approximately 1/4" to 1/2" of an extreme high temp refractory (mcmaster-carr says its good to 5000 degrees). So the final interior dimension should be about 9 to 9 1/2" diameter, and 15" high. It may be too large for one torch, so I may add another opening for a second torch. Not sure yet. Hopefully some experienced opinions can help me along on that one. The front opening will be 3" X 7" (probably a little big, but I plan on making some tomahawks too, and maybe heat treating multiple pieces at once) and the rear opening is 3" X 3". I will be putting a small platform under the front opening to either clamp or rest work pieces on. I am also thinking of a design to incorporate a quick release clamping system on the platform. Lots of ideas running through my head right now. I am using 4 pieces of 2" sch 40 that I welded caps on the end for the feet. The reason for this is that I have the option of putting the forge on a table top, or making a stand at a later date with 1 1/2" pipe (because the 1 1/2" fits nicely inside the 2" pipe). Anyways, heres a pic of what I have so far. I will post pics of my daily progress. I hope to have the work done and bring it home to line it by the weekend. Opinions, good or bad, are always welcome. And ideas will be added to the idea box. Thanks for looking!
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Cut two 6" pieces of 3/8" pipe and weld one on each side of the shell at the same height and parallel to the shelf of the front port. Make a large "U" out of 1/4" round stock and put it in the two pipes. This makes a sliding work rest that can be pulled out to rest long blades or bar stock on. It is pushed back out of the way for shorter blades or HT. You can weld a piece of plate on the "U" that is cut to fit up against the port shelf. That makes the shelf larger when the "U" is pushed in, and gives a more solid surface to rest long stock on when pulled out.

What I did for a lid was cut a 3" section of the shell pipe. I welded three short pieces of 3X1X.25" metal on the sides like little legs. This allowed the top to just sit on the shell and self-align. I cut 2 pieces of 1" Insulboard to fit, and used some stainless screws from the side to hold them in place. I put 1" of castable refractory on the inside. I also put a 3/8" hole in the center of the top for a TC. I made a 3" bottom the same way, sans hole. That makes the bottom easily removable for clean-out. You could drill and tap the metal tabs for bolts to hold the top and bottom in place if you plan on moving the forge around. All this made doing the shell lining and refractory easy, as both ends are open, and you can roll the shell around on its side while working on it. Set the shell upright on a piece of waxed paper when the lining is drying, put some wax paper across the top, and set a piece of plywood or metal plate over the top. This will assure flat and even ends to the refractory so they fit the top and bottom perfectly. Curing firings can be done with everything just set together. Once all is cured, coated with ITC-100, and ready for use, butter the top and bottom joints with a little satanite and set it all together.
One good 1.25" blown burner will run the forge at welding heat. I have it entering 1.5" above the floor.
 
I was still debating if I was going to make the bottom open or not. I don't really plan to do any forge welding, so I don't know how messy it will get. I guess it won't hurt to do it as it leaves my options open. I love the slide idea! is 1/4" thick enough though? It doesn't start to bend or sag from the heat? For the top, I am going to make a heavy duty hinge on the back side, and I am going to take a 1" wide strip and form it around the od of the seam between the lid and the body. Then I am going to weld it to the lid. I was going to line the lid with 2" thick blanket, and then weld in a few 1/8" rods to keep it in place before I put the refractory cement over it (to give the cement something to hold on to as well). Oddly enough, I compensated for the 2" of blanket on the bottom, plus a half inch of cement, then about another 1 1/2" up for the burner to go in. So that's right about where you said you have yours. One quick question..... Will it take longer to heat up if I go thicker on the cement? I have enough cement to just about fill this thing completely, so I can go as thick as I want with it. But I don't want to go too thick if its going to take too long to heat. Any suggestions? BTW, Thanks for your input!
 
The 1/4" rod won't bend from heat...because it won't really get hot.

The thicker the refractory the longer the time to bring up the chamber temp. Once there, it will hold temperature more evenly. A 1" poured shell inside a 2" wool liner will make a great forge for HT. It will take time to heat up, though.
 
Heres yesterdays progress.... I welded the bottom on (Tacked in several areas in case I ever decide to cut it off so the bottom can open), welded the top on the lid, and cut out and welded on the platform for the front port. Still a long way to go, but getting there.
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Todays progress..... I wasn't able to get too much done. I welded a plate to the body and one to the lid, and then made a giant hinge (pin is 1/2" diameter) for opening the lid. If anyone is wondering why I made the hinge plates stick so far out from the body, its so that the lid can lay vertical to the forge when its completely open.
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That hinge is going to get really hot... why not put it on the side. Such a nice weld, though.

Good looking build so far.
 
LOL..... Believe it or not, I didn't even think of that until after I looked at it in the pic. It would be a real PITA to cut it off and move it now. I'll wait and see if it becomes problematic. I don't intend on opening the lid when its hot, unless I am heat treating several pieces at the same time (I am going to be making a rail with hangers that clamps under the lid when closed to hang several blades from at the same time, then open the lid and lift the rail out and drop into a quench bucket).
 
Today I welded a rim around the lid to help with lid alignment and heat escaping between the body and lid. I also tacked the feet on, although I am not sure I like where they are and may actually move them to the outside of the body for better stability. I also welded a handle onto the lid, making sure not to put it directly above the front port like I did with the hinge on the rear port. And lastly, I welded the pipe into position for the propane torch, at an angle that should have it swirling the flame around the interior in a nice vortex.
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Welding a lip around the lid to keep heat from "escaping" is not even relevant.
You have a big opening where the heat is BLOWING out!
All your heat is retained by thermal mass of the forge, not by lack of air leaks.
Now just make sure you put it on something with wheels so you can roll it out of the way when not in use.
I spend an hour forging a blade, and then 20 hours building the knife. It's nice to do a quick disconnect on the fuel lines and roll that forge over in the corner until it's needed again.
 
The cheap MIG/TIG welder carts at HF are great for mounting a forge on. The gas bottle can sit on the back, tongs and tools sit on the shelves, etc. Rolls where you want it and moves to a corner when it is not needed.
 
I plan on making a stand with wheels for this. The reason I used the 2" schedule 40 pipe for the legs is because 1 1/2" sch 40 fits nicely inside it and the stand will have 1 1/2" sch 40 posts that will slip into the legs. This way I have the option of easily taking it on or off the stand, and it will be extremely secure.
So today, I welded retaining pins into the lid for the cement to bond to, and I cut the legs off and welded them to the exterior of the body. This gives it an overall bigger footprint, and therefore more stability (Not that it needed it. This things a tank). I also made a rack that sits under the lid, but can also be removed and slid through the front and rear ports to be used as a rest for the workpiece. I am pretty much done other then the interior lining. I just put a high temp coat of paint on it (I decided not to polish it because I like a metallic black look). I will post pics tomorrow of it painted. Tonight after I get done here I am lining the lid.
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With this rack, are you planning to hang knives on it for heat treatment? I am not that familiar with vertical forges but I see the potential of some major temperature variances from top to bottom... even with a PID control.
 
Rick is stating what I have avoided saying in order not to sound negative about your build. Vertical forges are great for welding and forging, but are not HT forges. Your HT plan stated earlier will be problematic.
 
LOL...You guys are making me want to cut off the legs, close up the ports and lay it down and make it horizontal! I guess All I can do is give it a try and see what happens. I am new to this (Only started a couple months ago with no prior experience) and am realizing that I am probably moving faster with my enthusiasm then I am with my knowledge. But One thing I have learned in everything I do is when I learn how to do something from people with experience, I always like to throw some of my own ideas in and see if I can build the better mousetrap. Failures only lead to learning what not to do, and I have learned a lot about what not to do already. I will keep forging on (forgive the pun) and try to get this thing to work as is and see what kind of modifications become necessary. And in the end, if it doesn't work out I have a very nice piece to modify into a horizontal forge. Heres what I got done today...
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BTW Rick and Stacy, thank you for all of your input. I appreciate the time you've taken to see what I am doing and giving me your honest opinions.
 
I think you are building a top notch set up for pattern welding and general forging. The quality of construction so far, is about as good as it gets, IMO. However, I strongly feel that regardless of any mod at this stage, you won't be able to heat treat as per your original plan. If anything, your HT option will be limited to pumping a blade through the ports. That probably sucks to digest but I think it is the reality of your situation(to the extent of my knowledge, anyway) and I feel it is necessary for me to give an honest opinion. Firstly, because I can tell that you realise we are sincerely trying to help and secondly, you are a hell of a fabricator and I see more builds in your near future. Don't change this one and if need be, research and build another, more suited for HT. You can fund it with the money from selling this one to some lucky maker... OR keep both and make us all jealous.
 
LOL.... Its funny you say that. I have enough ceramic blanket and cement left to make a small horizontal forge. I was eyeballing a piece of 8" pipe at work that would work perfectly with the materials I have left. I can probably whip that one together in a couple of hours. Thanks for the positive comments on my fabrication. I've been in this line of work (fabrication and welding of pipe and pipe fittings) for 22 years now and its fun when I can put my experience into personal projects. And the owners at my work have been great as far as letting me do projects like this at the shop. They once let me build and all aluminum and stainless steel trailer there. And even when I had an accident (A cut-off wheel broke and hit me in the cheek at full rpm off of a die grinder and sent me to the ER) they still let me do projects. Hopefully I will have all the machines I need within the next couple months. I plan on fabricating my own belt grinder, and I will probably make the second forge and keep them both, because I do plan on buying a small anvil and forging some blades.
 
One thought on using this forge fr HT. Weld a square tube that will just fit thru your door with one end capped shut. this will allow you to insert a smaller chamber that will workmore like an overn and not be effected as much by the flow of the forge. just a thought. I made one for mine and have been happy with the results.

Great looking build so far! Should last quite a while!

God Bless
Mike
 
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