Stainless Steels

Cliff, I agree that hardness isn't the last word when it comes to edge holding. But in the specific case of Benchmade ATS-34 vs. Cold Steel AUS-8, I was actually speaking from experience, though I probably should have removed the "significantly". In folder blades, Benchmade's ATS-34 holds an edge better for me. Theoretically, in a (say) light chopper, I agree that it's possible the ATS-34 would chip out and need more sharpening, while the softer tougher AUS-8 would chip less and end up performing better for longer.

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 06 August 1999).]
 
I'm going to agree with Cliff that the ATS-34 blade (with BM heat-treat) will be more likely to suffer damage, and I'm going to agree with Joe that the AUS-8 will have markedly less edge-holding.

I think you fellas are doing the apples-and-oranges thing. Joe is talking about pure cutting performance while Cliff is discussing the real-world damages that might occur during use. In a contolled cutting situation everything I've seen says that the ATS-34 will keep cutting longer. But in normal use, BM edges chip and points break with greater frequency than they should. If that happens, then you will lose all the steel of a dozen re-sharpenings grinding the damage out. Also, the AUS-8 will be much easier to sharpen and undre some stresses will roll or deform instead of chipping. But I won't deny that ATS-34 hardened to 61Rc will stay sharp a long time if it doesn't suffer damage.

-Drew
 
Joe :

In folder blades, Benchmade's ATS-34 holds an edge better for me.
Click to expand...

Understandable. It just depends on what you are using it for.


Drew :

ATS-34 hardened to 61Rc will stay sharp a long time if it doesn't suffer damage
Click to expand...

Case in point. I was watching some friends clean some cod last weekend (food fishery opened). These were fairly large fish (about 4 feet long) and they were using their knives to both fillet and split and clean the heads. This puts rather severe strain on the edge.

If for example we compared the performance of my CPM-10V 62.5 RC blade to the soft (50-55) high-carbon knives they were using, their knives would have had much better edge retention meaning that they would have to do much less work on the knives for a specific amount of fish being cleaned.

Basically this is what they were doing. After every couple of fish the knife would be raked hard across a butchers steel about 4-5 times very quickly with moderate force. This kept the blade fairly sharp with a coarse edge and it worked out the indendations from the bone impacts.

Now if they had tried the CPM-10V blade it would have chipped out badly on the skull and these chips would have started to tear the fillet and make cutting difficult. Using the butchers steel would have made the problem worse as it would have violently crashed into the chips enlarging them. Very quickly they would have gave up on the knife.

Similar things would have happened with an AUS-8 CS knife and a 61 RC ATS-34 one.

It is as Drew noted mainly an issue with terms, but it is I think it is a fairly important one.

-Cliff
 
The Cold Steel and Benchmade issue is a specific case, and does not tell the true comparison between ATS-34 and AUS-8. I will take a carefully and correctly heat treated ATS-34 blade over an AUS-8 blade heat treated with similar care in all circumstances. AUS-8 does not compare to premium cutlery steels in any way except stainlessness.

I personally, would even need to see with my own eyes a direct test between a CS AUS-8 blade and a similar ATS-34 Benchmade blade before I would even accept Cliff's assertion. He may be right, but I am not sure. I have used AUS-8 blades, and I have used Benchmade ATS-34 blades. I have experienced dulling of AUS blades on soft materials, but I have not experienced much chipping of ATS-34 blades on hard materials. I would have to be convinced that the AUS blade would somehow become a better edge holder on hard materials than it is on fiberous materials. Doesn't make any sense to me on the surface of it.

Harv
 
For what it's worth, I would take the ATS-34 blade too if it were treated a bit softer. That's why I specified that I was discussing Benchmade's ATS-34. I didn't specify Cold Steel's AUS-8 because I haven't noticed any performance difference between theirs and AUS-8 from other folks like Spyderco.

-Drew
 
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