standard for dullness?

[me2]

You beat me to it! If a knife doesn't cut what I want it it cut....it's dull.

If a knife cuts what I want it to cut....it's sharp.

Funny thing....I just don't find myself needing to slice hairs lengthwise. Nor have I found the need to shave my arm. Nor cut the top of my water bottle. Nor make little curli-ques on paper. Nor push cut toilet paper.

I must be missing something, because it seems like a lot of people need to do that stuff!

These are not cutting uses, but sharpening QC. Though I admit to occasionally using my Delica to trim my beard and eyebrows.

 

[Jason B.]

To me "if it will cut" is not really any type of answer because some really dull knives will still cut depending on what your trying to cut. I've even used knives with butter knife like edges and still made fuzz sticks of wood or cut meat, string, cardboard......

Dull is what it is, if your edge feels dull or you can see flat sections, dents, chips, rolls, its probably in need of sharpening. If you can run your finger down the edge with no bite into the skin it needs sharpening. If the edge shaves no hair it probably needs sharpening.

For a standard example of sharp use a utility razor then compare to your edge.

 

[Bill1170]

Easy tests for two levels of dullness are:

1. No longer shaves. Often still useful but not keen enough for my tastes or for more demanding tasks.

2. Skates off fingernail without removing any keratin. This is way dull and demands attention ASAP.

 

[KennyB]

I think it's funny how people are so efficient that they consider dull when it doesn't cut what they want, yet they still waste the time to say that in this thread. It's almost like when people ask, "How much do you smoke each day?" and someone posts just to say they don't smoke.

Dull to me is when it doesn't cut notebook paper, but I still find a knife usable at this level. Uselessly dull to me is when it won't even slice up a potato.

 

[Ankerson]

To me "if it will cut" is not really any type of answer because some really dull knives will still cut depending on what your trying to cut. I've even used knives with butter knife like edges and still made fuzz sticks of wood or cut meat, string, cardboard......

Yep, and you can still use them in the kitchen when they are that dull too.

Heck you can cut up carrots with a butter knife.

It comes down to blade grinds and how thin the edge and the steel above the edge is. Most kitchen knives are very thin so they will keep cutting and be usable even with butter knife edges.

Letter openers don't have a real edge on them at all, but they will open a letter easy.

 

[gunmike1]

You got it nailed Ankerson, geometry plays a huge role in cutting. My Krein regrind Caly Jr. has a .005" thick edge, and I can cut straight into a stone to remove the edge and it still outcuts most factory knives that are sharp. As for what I consider dull it is when I can't shave my arm hairs. At that point the knife is taking too much more effort than it should when cutting.

Mike

 

[ono724]

To me "if it will cut" is not really any type of answer because some really dull knives will still cut depending on what your trying to cut. I've even used knives with butter knife like edges and still made fuzz sticks of wood or cut meat, string, cardboard......

Dull is what it is, if your edge feels dull or you can see flat sections, dents, chips, rolls, its probably in need of sharpening. If you can run your finger down the edge with no bite into the skin it needs sharpening. If the edge shaves no hair it probably needs sharpening.

For a standard example of sharp use a utility razor then compare to your edge.

If it will cut is indeed a good answer to an unanswerable question.. What is your measure of dullness? Take it for what it's worth

 

[Klok]

Yep, and you can still use them in the kitchen when they are that dull too.

Heck you can cut up carrots with a butter knife.

It comes down to blade grinds and how thin the edge and the steel above the edge is. Most kitchen knives are very thin so they will keep cutting and be usable even with butter knife edges.

Letter openers don't have a real edge on them at all, but they will open a letter easy.

none of my kitchen knives are sharp, heck most of them don't have an edge anymore. all of them still work

 

[ono724]

Why should we have a standard for dull knives?

So people have something to aspire to?

There's levels of dullness just as there is levels of sharpness. My knives will never be hair popping, tree topping, air cutting sharp. Then again, I'll never spend hours and hours sharpening a knife. I just don't have the time. So my level of sharpness/dullness is what does the job for me. It's a subjective topic.

 

[audiopile]

I am simply puzzled by the fact that the one type of knife that is in many cases the only knife a significant portion of the population uses - is very frequently impressively dull ? The four knives I tried to use where all identical Chicago Cutlery "steak" knives. Chicagos were standard use knives in the restaurant kitchens I worked in 45 years ago and they were always sharp. But chef's routinely steeled their knives in the course of a evening. After I gave up and used my ATR for apple cutting - went back and steeled the knives in this kitchen - no big effort - about three passes on each side and a soft pass for the final side and they were OK - not great - but vastly improved.
I've been giving good kitchen knives as housewarming/wedding gifts for decades and a few years back started throwing in a variety of cheap "sharpeners" with the knives. As near as i can tell - almost no one uses the sharpeners ?

 

[Ankerson]

I am simply puzzled by the fact that the one type of knife that is in many cases the only knife a significant portion of the population uses - is very frequently impressively dull ? The four knives I tried to use where all identical Chicago Cutlery "steak" knives. Chicagos were standard use knives in the restaurant kitchens I worked in 45 years ago and they were always sharp. But chef's routinely steeled their knives in the course of a evening. After I gave up and used my ATR for apple cutting - went back and steeled the knives in this kitchen - no big effort - about three passes on each side and a soft pass for the final side and they were OK - not great - but vastly improved.
I've been giving good kitchen knives as housewarming/wedding gifts for decades and a few years back started throwing in a variety of cheap "sharpeners" with the knives. As near as i can tell - almost no one uses the sharpeners ?

It more like they still cut so they are sharp.....

By the time a kitchen knife gets noticeably dull to most people it will be as dull as a butter knife or a letter opener.

Kitchen knives will cut when very dull due to the thin blade grinds and edges.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I sharpen my knives obsessively. It's weird really. My only idea of a dull knife is my mother's kitchen knives because she never sharpens or maintains them. They skate right across an able as well so I suppose that's a good test. My own standard is if it doesn't shave hair across my arm it needs sharpening for my personal knives.

I can relate, believe me.

I have a very hard time resisting sharpening my mother's kitchen knives too. She 'makes do' with 'em, and seems to be satisfied with that. I watch intently when she's using them, and it's tough not to just say, 'Gimme that, I'll touch it up for you...'. She's 77 years old, and has some significant short-term memory issues. I'd kick myself if she cut herself using one that she'd FORGOTTEN I'd just sharpened to MY satisfaction. So, I just let it go, and compulsively go and find one more of my own to sharpen (good thing I've built a large collection).

Gotta get it outta my system, somehow...

 

[Ankerson]

I can relate, believe me.

I have a very hard time resisting sharpening my mother's kitchen knives too. She 'makes do' with 'em, and seems to be satisfied with that. I watch intently when she's using them, and it's tough not to just say, 'Gimme that, I'll touch it up for you...'. She's 77 years old, and has some significant short-term memory issues. I'd kick myself if she cut herself using one that she'd FORGOTTEN I'd just sharpened to MY satisfaction. So, I just let it go, and compulsively go and find one more of my own to sharpen (good thing I've built a large collection).

Gotta get it outta my system, somehow...

For me on kitchen knives if they will slice printer paper that's good enough for kitchen use.

 

[A.P.F.]

Yup, a 'utility' edge on kitchen knives is usually all I aim for. For my personal knives, if it won't shave, it's back to the cave.

 

[Ankerson]

Yup, a 'utility' edge on kitchen knives is usually all I aim for. For my personal knives, if it won't shave, it's back to the cave.

Yeah as much as kitchen knives get beat up a utility edge is more than good enough and I can slap that on in less than 5 mins.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

For me on kitchen knives if they will slice printer paper that's good enough for kitchen use.

That's what KILLS me about my mom's knives. I don't think they'd even accomplish that. I'd LOVE to at least keep 'em at that level for her. She tends to cut a lot of fruits/veggies & other food items by 'squeezing' the blade through it toward her thumb, holding the fruit or whatever in the same hand as the knife. Really bad technique, I know. But, she's been doing it that way for a very long time. No chance of changing any habits there. If the knife was sharp at all, I could easily see it slicing right into her thumb.

So, I just WINCE and let it be... in this case anyway, DULL is the safer option. If she needs any more cutting power, she generally uses kitchen shears for that anyway.

 

[Ankerson]

That's what KILLS me about my mom's knives. I don't think they'd even accomplish that. I'd LOVE to at least keep 'em at that level for her. She tends to cut a lot of fruits/veggies & other food items by 'squeezing' the blade through it toward her thumb, holding the fruit or whatever in the same hand as the knife. Really bad technique, I know. But, she's been doing it that way for a very long time. No chance of changing any habits there. If the knife was sharp at all, I could easily see it slicing right into her thumb.

So, I just WINCE and let it be... in this case anyway, DULL is the safer option. If she needs any more cutting power, she generally uses kitchen shears for that anyway.

I know exactly what you mean. LOL

The only ones I really worry about keeping sharp are my Furi Pro's and they are kept in the wooden box, washed by hand, dried and returned to the box, the rest I just steel them once in awhile.

 

[tonijedi]

For me I like my knives like this:

- Fixed blades for general use, including wood carving and batoning etc: cut paper
- EDC Folders: shaving sharp

I don't have any special steel knives (S"whatever" or INFI) but I have a FK A1 with laminated VG10. Sure it's better than AUS8 but after some wood work and cut some dirty ropes it has almost the same edge when compared with other steels that performed the same tasks.

 

[A.P.F.]

Yeah as much as kitchen knives get beat up a utility edge is more than good enough and I can slap that on in less than 5 mins.

Shoot, you could slap that on with a stern look!

 

[EBHM4]

Obsessed, it's glad to see someone who can relate! The thing is my mom bought those Cutco knives because she was so impressed with how sharp they were but then didn't realize they don't stay that sharp forever! Seriously, they're only 440C mom, that edge will go away in a few months of good use. And lo and behold, they did and she just doesn't bother putting it back on. Whatever, I leave her alone about it because I would only annoy her to sharpen them more often.