Standard reply to newbies

J

jvholt

Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
88
Please don't misunderstand me. I am just a hobby, stock removal maker, and sale a knife now and then to resupply. I have been making knives for several years and compared to the many talented makers here am still a newbie myself. I mainly read the forums and rarely post anything, there is a great deal of knowledge and information here. I learn something new everytime I visit, which is daily if not two or three times a day. As a matter of fact I pretty much learned how to make a knife from reading the "Stickies", doing my own Google searches, a lot of research, and even more trial and error, all performed on my own. I have been a member of the forums for a few years now and have seen all of the repetitive newbie threads. You know the ones "PLEASE HELP, I WANT TO MAKE A KNIFE, WHAT TOOLS DO I NEED", "IS HOME DEPOT STEEL GOOD FOR MAKING KNIVES?","CAN I MAKE A KNIFE OUT OF MY DAD'S FILE AND HEAT TREAT IT IN MY WIFE'S OVEN". I often open and read the newbie question because I usually learn something from the answers to the newbie question.
But recently I hate seeing "THE STANDARD REPLY TO NEWBIES" for a bunch of friendly guys who are so willing to share what they know it seems rude and impersonal, unfriendly. I know a guy ought to take some initiative and do some things for himself but everyone has to start somewhere. I understand the intentions. Just my two cents.
 
jvholt said:
Please don't misunderstand me. I am just a hobby, stock removal maker, and sale a knife now and then to resupply. I have been making knives for several years and compared to the many talented makers here am still a newbie myself. I mainly read the forums and rarely post anything, there is a great deal of knowledge and information here. I learn something new everytime I visit, which is daily if not two or three times a day. As a matter of fact I pretty much learned how to make a knife from reading the "Stickies", doing my own Google searches, a lot of research, and even more trial and error, all performed on my own. I have been a member of the forums for a few years now and have seen all of the repetitive newbie threads. You know the ones "PLEASE HELP, I WANT TO MAKE A KNIFE, WHAT TOOLS DO I NEED", "IS HOME DEPOT STEEL GOOD FOR MAKING KNIVES?","CAN I MAKE A KNIFE OUT OF MY DAD'S FILE AND HEAT TREAT IT IN MY WIFE'S OVEN". I often open and read the newbie question because I usually learn something from the answers to the newbie question.
But recently I hate seeing "THE STANDARD REPLY TO NEWBIES" for a bunch of friendly guys who are so willing to share what they know it seems rude and impersonal, unfriendly. I know a guy ought to take some initiative and do some things for himself but everyone has to start somewhere. I understand the intentions. Just my two cents.
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Well, I guess that is directed at me.

About this
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9139263&postcount=4

I agree with you insomuch as I changed the title to "New Knifemakers" rather than to "Newbies", because I thought the word has unwarranted negative connotations.

I started posting it because it's exactly the kind of post I was looking for when I first came here. It would have saved me from years of mistakes.

When I first came here, I read every single post in the shop talk archives.
The info was conflicting and scattered.
Not everyone will read first and ask questions later, many can't even find the stickies.

I also noticed that we lost excellent makers when many of the best and brightest got burned out on the typical and repetitive questions then left.

I started in on this knifemaking thing before I had good Internet access and learned where to buy books and videos.
The books I did find were less than perfect and sidetracked me for years. (FDKS & KT)

There is now a ton of good info if you know where and how to look for it.
I want new makers to be the absolute best they can be or I wouldn't have spent the time to compile and post that list.

Hopefully it lets the new makers be successful in their first projects and also frees up the more experienced makers for the more interesting and advanced posts.

I'd love to hear suggestions on topics you think should be included.
 
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Hi I been on this site for a couple of weeks now,I been wanting to make a knife of course.I have not started my project yet !

I have found the Stickies(top of page 1) to be very helpfull.With planning for my knife project.Also the MY first knife(WIP) Threads are great.

I would also like to Thank everyone for there posts an the STICKIES.

Reading is Fundamental

DOW
 
12345678910 said:
There is now a ton of good info if you know where and how to look for it.
I want new makers to be the absolute best they can be or I wouldn't have spent the time to compile and post that list.

Hopefully it lets the new makers be successful in their first projects and also frees up the more experienced makers for the more interesting and advanced posts.

I'd love to hear suggestions on topics you think should be included.
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I actually never thought of it like that. Makes more sense. By the way I'm not trying to step on toes.
 
Here is the problem with the "standard reply to newbies". When making that reply you are assuming that the newbie knows how to navigate a forum to find the stickies. I can tell you, this was my first time on any forum. I just heard someone tell me to go to bladeforums to get info. I didnt know what a stickie was, I had no idea they contained so much info. Then I began to slowly uncover all the information in them, but only after I had asked a question in the shop talk.

I have to say I never had anyone give me the standard smartass "check the stickies" answer like I have seen a lot of new makers get. Thats not to say that everyone is a smartass, just a few. Alot of guys will kindly direct new makers to stickies and explain how much info is in them. But you gotta have that jerk everywhere, anytime someone asks a question that may be answered in the stickies some guy will let fly about how he is tired of answering the same questions over and over. Well, dude, when you see the title to the thread is "how about a bed frame for steel" then just skip it.

Let me say before evryone decides to jump to their own defense, the guys Im talking about are the exception, not the rule. Most people just want to help and gladly share information. I can think of one mod who everytime someone asks the same question he kindly directs them to the stickies and answers whatever question they may have asked.

We have to be careful about how we treat those new makers, yes they can be stupid questions, but if they are and that bothers you, then why are you wasteing your time. Let it go.
Just my $.02
 
Sean Cochran said:
Here is the problem with the "standard reply to newbies". When making that reply you are assuming that the newbie knows how to navigate a forum to find the stickies. I can tell you, this was my first time on any forum. I just heard someone tell me to go to bladeforums to get info. I didnt know what a stickie was, I had no idea they contained so much info. Then I began to slowly uncover all the information in them, but only after I had asked a question in the shop talk.

I have to say I never had anyone give me the standard smartass "check the stickies" answer like I have seen a lot of new makers get. Thats not to say that everyone is a smartass, just a few. Alot of guys will kindly direct new makers to stickies and explain how much info is in them. But you gotta have that jerk everywhere, anytime someone asks a question that may be answered in the stickies some guy will let fly about how he is tired of answering the same questions over and over. Well, dude, when you see the title to the thread is "how about a bed frame for steel" then just skip it.

Let me say before evryone decides to jump to their own defense, the guys Im talking about are the exception, not the rule. Most people just want to help and gladly share information. I can think of one mod who everytime someone asks the same question he kindly directs them to the stickies and answers whatever question they may have asked.

We have to be careful about how we treat those new makers, yes they can be stupid questions, but if they are and that bothers you, then why are you wasteing your time. Let it go.
Just my $.02
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You know he is talking about this post that I make when new members have general questions,
not "go read the stickies" right ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9139263&postcount=4
 
I just wanted to chime in and say that, although a tad blunt, I think that your "Standard Reply to Newbies" is incredibly helpful, 12...90. I have a lot of forum navigation expertise (too much wasting time on internets), but I think that a lot of new makers come here, can't figure out where to start, and ask a question that has been covered many times. Your response is a great jumping off point.

And not to derail, but do you have any idea how many of your 1733 posts are the standard reply? Always wanted to ask, and now I finally have a thread where it is appropriate to do so.
 
12345678910 said:
You know he is talking about this post that I make when new members have general questions,
not "go read the stickies" right ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9139263&postcount=4
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I don't think a better post can be made to guide folks new to research than your post. It doesn't take an astronaut's problem solving skills to read a forum, frankly and a good bit of laziness might be involved in asking some questions.

Thread title SUBJECT simple, complete and to the point are imperative to archive searching. Way to many thread titles not consistent with the OP post and thus non searchable by subject.
 
Count,
I didnt at all mean to imply you were one of the jerks I was talking about, they will chime in soon I imagine.
Actually I think your link is quite helpful and you put alot of time into it. It would have helped me alot when I first came here.

Sean
 
+1

This response is directed at no one person but, all who do this type of thing!

On thing that irritates me about any knife making forum site, and I am a member of several! Is that one guy that seems to think it is beneath him to answer a question that has been asked many a time before!

I know a ABS Mastersmtih that has never failed to answer a question from me, no matter how stupid it may have sounded or how many times he heard that same question asked. He always takes the time to answer in detail and then backs up his answer with the kind of info that fills in the blanks, "so to speak"!

I can't help but think of the old saying "do unto others as you would have them do to you"! Sometimes all of us need to stop and think right before we hit the submit button! :D
 
I think a good reply is ones I've seen many times. Example:

Q: What is the best steel for a newbie ? I don't know anything.

A: Welcome to the forums. Get some 1084 from Aldo. He's a great guy to deal with and sells good stuff. Check out the "stickies" at the top of the General forum too. Lots of good info there.

This is a great forum and I think it will continue to be that way.
 
Angus McGunnigl said:
I think a good reply is ones I've seen many times. Example:

Q: What is the best steel for a newbie ? I don't know anything.

A: Welcome to the forums. Get some 1084 from Aldo. He's a great guy to deal with and sells good stuff. Check out the "stickies" at the top of the General forum too. Lots of good info there.

This is a great forum and I think it will continue to be that way.
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...and...

You would likely find it helpful to fill out your profile so folks can know where you are. There very well may be a maker(s) in your area who could lend a hand in your learning.

==============

I wholeheartedly agree, it is a great forum! I find it note worthy that in this very thread it has been said several times that curt responses are the exception rather than the rule. I respectfully disagree that it has become a standard reply lately. I guess it's the, "too much salt spoils the soup" kind of thing. Ninety-nine percent of the soup is full of wonderful ingredients, yet a bit too much salt and whamo, it doesn't taste good anymore.

There is a difference between soup and forums though, and it has been stated in this thread too. We can pass over which threads and posts we want to read (take in) or respond too. That holds equally well for the seasoned participants as well as the new ones. I humbly submit, that just as it is being suggested to skip over a noob type inquiry if it bothers you, it would probably be beneficial to skip over a curt or insensitive response as well.

It's a glass half full or half empty kind of thing....and it's over flowing marvelously here!!!

All the best, Phil
 
Being a newbie myself I think I am qualified to reply to this. I was very familiar with how forums work before joining here, and after figuring out where the info I was looking for was located I spent several weeks just searching and reading. I made an introduction post sans questions and The Count replied with the standard reply. Boy, as much reading as I did, I sure missed many of those threads in their original locations. That reply saved me TONS of time and answered many questions before I even knew enough to ask them! I still reference those links for solutions to different issues I come across. I never felt that reply was standoff-ish but it did prepare me with a basic understanding so I wasn't repeating all the same questions.

So I owe you guys, 1-10 in particular, a thank you for the "Standard reply to newbies." Every time I see it posted now I check it out for any updates. That reply in conjunction with the stickies has taught me how to make a knife, even though I am still not done with my first one yet.

I say keep posting it, keep revising it, and maybe even some of the seasoned makers might even find some information in it useful occasionally.


-Xander
 
artificialj said:
And not to derail, but do you have any idea how many of your 1733 posts are the standard reply? Always wanted to ask, and now I finally have a thread where it is appropriate to do so.
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Probably not as many as you think.

(341 of those posts are in the "Hot Chicks With Red Hair" thread alone, not counting any other Whine and Cheese posts.. :)

I think I only started the Standard Reply fairly recently, less than a year ?
 
Phil Dwyer said:
Phil
I couldnt agree more. Thats why I usually never reply to this type of thread, I just dont have the time or inclination to get involved in argument on the internet. Im sure though that there are some guys who get a big ego stroke out of it. I would guess that they dont get it in the "real" world, but I digress. The only reason I got involved in this one is because like you Ive noticed here lately that some new guys are getting the third degree because they have asked "the same question that has been answered 1,000 times".
Anyway, this is a great repository of information and those guys like you, Phil, and "The Count" I have seen direct people in a very polite and understanding way. I have also seen guys with a M.S. after thier name give the same answer over and over without ever getting out of line, they just want to help.
We are lucky to have a few metallurgists that go out of the way to make information available, and again answer the same questions over and over. I guess what Im getting at is, like I said, if you are tired of seeing the same questions over and over.....then dont. Skip it. Let someone who is willing to help answer.
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For the most part, the reaction to that post is positive.

My apprehension is that I may post it too fast and too often, possibly giving it to the same person more than once.

I try to ensure that it is appropriate, based on the question asked, post count and whether I recognize the user-name, but I'm sure that I will duplicate myself to the same person at least once in a while and I hope that isn't offensive...
 
I would add that some of the links in the stickies are expired, and the standard reply is an actual response to the question. Answering the question with a list of links is certainly better than just saying "Read the stickies". "Read the stickies" isn't a very direct answer, unless you give a link to each of the stickies. The standard reply is a direct link to several answer, as well as providing helpful info.

BTW: I've seen the standard reply given by more than just the Count. Those who beat him to the punch have taken pride in doing so.
 
I am actually really grateful for "the Count" and his standard response. I have spent many hours answering the same question and telling people to fill out at least what town they live in,

Thank you!

-Page
 
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