Stang Bladeworks Framelock Info

[Stang Bladeworks]

Hi,

For those of you who don't know me I am a Canadian knifemaker. I am not full time but I take it very seriously. Since I have started making knives framelocks have been my end goal. I have finally completed a prototype and I wanted to post up the details and get feedback on my design.

In the name of transparency I will disclose what is done in house and what is not.

The parts are cut out via waterjet by a local company and some holes are spotted. I may in the future have the lockbars cut, but for now I do that on my mill. I intend to continue using the company for waterjet. The cost is reasonable and the time it saves is immense. In my opinion this doesn't take away from the "custom nature" but I know some people feel it does. I would love to hear feedback either way. I can cut everything out manually but It would need to be reflected in the price.

The heat treat and cryo are done in house. I have my own hardness tester and each blade is tested and the number is provided to the customer.

All surface grinding and machining operations are done in house on manual machines. I have nothing against cnc but is cost prohibitive for me at this time.

All finishing work (blasting, ano, etching etc.) is done in house, as is carbidizing.

I do NOT make my own hardware. screws, barrels and bearings are purchased from vendors that I feel provide the highest quality parts.

I think that covers my processes. If anyone wants further details just let me know and I will be sure to elaborate.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

I want to take some time to explain my design choices and receive feedback.

size: the knife has a 3.5 inch blade. As far as lengths go the proportions are very close to a large Sebenza 21. The thickness and width vary as the overall shape is pretty different. My Sebenza is one of my favorite knives and several design choices are influenced by it.

Weight: the weight is less of a choice and more of a result. The number is 5.6 ounces and will vary slightly from one to the next as they are hand made.

Handle design: the handle is designed to be comfortable in a variety of grips. It is full ti and contoured. It has 2 primary grips, one rearward and one forward. The jimping can be used in either grip. In the forward grip the thumb can extend into the dip in the blade leaving only the last inch or so of blade exposed. As far as the 2 grips go I tried to provide 2 purposeful options like a pm2 (another favorite knife of mine). The contouring is another personal preference of mine. All of the edges are further broken and no hard corners are left on the knife.

Handle construction: The handle scales are held together by a small backspacer. The backspacer is not threaded. There are two barrels that pass through the spacer and into each slab of titanium. the barrels are hardened stainless steel and precision made by ti connector. This means you cant strip out a screw in the backspacer and the knife has much more lateral support and rigidity. I have always admired this construction method. I know crk and hinderer both use this type of construction. There are no structural screws in the ti. The only 2 screws in the frame are for the stabilizer and the clip.

Clip: The clip sits in a milled slot. this means only one screw is needed to affix it to the knife. The fit is tight and having only one screw allows for a slightly deeper carry. As a result there are no gaps where the clip meets the frame. it is one flat surface against another.

Stabilizer: the stabilizer is used to both prevent accidental overtravel of the lockbar and to stabilize it laterally. some people only use it for overtravel But I have set it up so it makes contact with the lockbar when its locked up. This is the same way hinderer uses it.

Lockup: the lockup is titanium. The face is carbidized. I am not a fan of crazy early lockup. The carbidization prevents excessive stick and helps with wear. I have never heard of anyone wearing out a properly executed ti lock. I am not a huge fan of inserts. In my opinion they have their own set of trade offs and unless they are done right they can cause their own issues.

Blade steel: for now I am using cpm154. I run it at 62HRC and I grind it thin (about .013" at 17dps). This varies slightly as the blades are ground by hand. I think this is a great steel with a lot of characteristics I like. I do plan to try other steels but I think cpm154 is a great steel for the money.

Lockbar relief: I like when the relief is cut internally so there is nothing to hang up on when you put the knife in your pocket. This is pretty rare with a contoured frame but I think it works good. It eliminated a potential hotspot.

Pivot system: To my knowledge no one has a system exactly like this. I have a bushing style system with bearings. The pivot barrel is milled to the exact length required to fully tighten everything down and have a free action with no play at all. No thread locker required. I use skiff made oversized ceramic bearings. I like there self lubricating property and corrosion resistance. I did a lot of research on different bearings and I like these the best. The larger 2mm balls don't wear into the ti. I have opened my prototype thousands of times and everything is rock solid. No play in any direction.

Detent: The detent is ceramic, It is not affected by anodizing and will not corrode.

Hardware: All screws are ti and the pivot is hardened much like the barrels in the backspacer.

Stop pin: the hardened stop pin is shouldered in the ti. It rides on a track internal to the frame. This allows for the round pin to contact a round stop and provide maximum surface area. It is the same type of system used on the grimsmo norsman but it only uses one stop pin.

This is a quick overview. I have much more to say on each topic but I want to get some info out. If anyone has questions just let me know.

YOUR FEEDBACK IS MUCH APPRECIATED, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
THANKS FOR READING

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Here are some detail pics. If anyone wants more pics let me know.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Pricing

As of right now my pricing will be $450 USD plus shipping. I plan to make and release knives first come first serve. I plan to take custom orders at a later time once I have everything down pat. If a knife fails my qc I will scrap it and I don't want to have anyone waiting on a build for an extended period of time.

As with everything I am open to feedback on this. I will be upfront that I intend to increase my price a bit down the road. This is meant as an introductory price to help gain some traction and move knives so I can gain as much experience as possible and refine my process to make larger batches possible in the future.

The knives will ship insured. They will include a nylon zipper pouch and a wiha t15 and t8 wing driver. These are the 2 sizes required to disassemble the knife.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Sharpening: this knife is designed to be used and sharpened. It has a generous sharpening choil and the tip seats in the handle sufficiently deep such that once the knife is sharpened to the maximum capacity of the choil the tip will remain below the surface of the handles. It should last a lifetime if sharpened properly. That is a tertiary reason for the thin grind as well. It should remain quite slicy for its lifetime because the edge starts out thin. In the event someone uses their knife to the point the edge is too thick I will happily regrind it to a thinner point.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Here are some pics of the internals.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Im looking to get as much feedback as possible to make this model the best it can be. If you have any input, comments, gripes, questions etc. Please let me know.

 

[MavKnives]

I'd love to hear more about the pivot bushing system. Never heard of it, and from your pictures it all looks traditionally done? Is there a tiny bushing on one side or the other that allows you to crank it, and the bushing has a slight give when tightening allowing high torque? Sounds very interesting, if you could explain more or provide more detailed pics thatd be awesome!

Looks great though for #1! Would love to see a video. I use skiff bearings myself, i use the 1/16" balls though and they have served me very well. Have 2 working and sold knives with them and the 2nd one was even smoother than the 1st so im dialing everything in! Keep at it looks good!

Only thing I would say is maybe a little heavier contouring. That will shed alot of weight. Going thinner on contouring though will likely require the lock relief to be on the outside of the frame, which isn't a big deal in my opinion.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

I'd love to hear more about the pivot bushing system. Never heard of it, and from your pictures it all looks traditionally done? Is there a tiny bushing on one side or the other that allows you to crank it, and the bushing has a slight give when tightening allowing high torque? Sounds very interesting, if you could explain more or provide more detailed pics thatd be awesome!

Looks great though for #1! Would love to see a video. I use skiff bearings myself, i use the 1/16" balls though and they have served me very well. Have 2 working and sold knives with them and the 2nd one was even smoother than the 1st so im dialing everything in! Keep at it looks good!

Only thing I would say is maybe a little heavier contouring. That will shed alot of weight. Going thinner on contouring though will likely require the lock relief to be on the outside of the frame, which isn't a big deal in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply. The bushing is the pivot barrel itself. It is milled to the proper length so that when the screws are tightened against it the action is set properly. I like your idea of heavier contouring but you are correct that I would need to move the relief to the outside of the frame. I think ill try that on the next one. Im sure the smaller bearings are just fine I was just looking for a little extra insurance because of the way i did my pivot. If they wear in a large track I would develop side to side play.

I did post a video on my Instagram. If there is a way to post one here I will. Im just unaware of how to do so.

 

[brownshoe]

Way too heavy, hollow out the back side of the slabs like William&Henry and others.

Colors looks dull almost dirty..."don't buy no ugly knife." Look at Zeiba's work, he makes the same knife different for every show and they pop even when dark.

Blade finish looks a bit crude. At $450 and cpm154 it could be shinier.

I like cpm154, however the market for custom tacticals does not.

You have yet to show or discuss how well it cuts or how well your 62RC thin edge holds up. With this type of knife, it needs to perform and not chip on a chicken bone.

You've shown glamor shots and closeups but no straight on shots with the knife open/closed front, back, and spine. Is it a slab sided knife with the edges knocked down or contoured, can't really tell. Look at Coop's work, his style of photos sells a s-load of knives.

I like your pivot system, blade shape, price and don't care about waterjets or jigs as long as it's reflected in the cost. Good luck, I hope you do well.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Way too heavy, hollow out the back side of the slabs like William&Henry and others.

Colors looks dull almost dirty..."don't buy no ugly knife." Look at Zeiba's work, he makes the same knife different for every show and they pop even when dark.

Blade finish looks a bit crude. At $450 and cpm154 it could be shinier.

I like cpm154, however the market for custom tacticals does not.

You have yet to show or discuss how well it cuts or how well your 62RC thin edge holds up. With this type of knife, it needs to perform and not chip on a chicken bone.

You've shown glamor shots and closeups but no straight on shots with the knife open/closed front, back, and spine. Is it a slab sided knife with the edges knocked down or contoured, can't really tell. Look at Coop's work, his style of photos sells a s-load of knives.

I like your pivot system, blade shape, price and don't care about waterjets or jigs as long as it's reflected in the cost. Good luck, I hope you do well.

Thanks for your feedback. As far as weight goes I plan to contour more aggressively to reduce weight. I will need to make the lockbar relief external in order to do so. My colors are dark or dirty because I blasted prior to anodizing. I like this look but I can appreciate its not for everyone. The blade finish is something im looking at changing up. I want to get a nice stonewash user finish that is uniform throughout. My tumbler right now is not up to the task. I am not aware of who coop is but if you can point me in a direction I will certainly check out his photography. I plan to do a cut / durability test soon. I have several knives out in the field in cpm154 and I have only heard good things. They are mostly fixed blades. I have also tested the steel myself in fixed blades for both edge retention and durability. Maybe I need to shoot some videos about the framelock. I dont intend to list any for sale until I am 100% satisfied. Thanks again.

 

[brownshoe]

James Cooper is the best knife photographer. He's on this forum. His business and gallery can be accessed at www.sharpbycoop.com. Look at his style, he shows the whole package in about three images in a single picture. I think he may have given some practical advice in the past on this forum. A lot of the pictures in Blade and Knife magazines are by him.

 

[SharpByCoop]

B brownshoe : Thank you again for your continued support.

Derek Stang: You are going above and beyond in attempting to produce and show us your future series. Good for YOU! As in all things: Make it RIGHT mechanically and functionally first, then concentrate on details and colors and finishes.

Make sure you have an Instagram account running. Hot ticket there.

Me: I concentrate on overall displays: Open, closed, backside and backspine areas. It seems to be exactly what the viewers wish to see. Drama angular shots are best after the 'boring' sideviews!

Good luck!

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

B brownshoe : Thank you again for your continued support.

Derek Stang: You are going above and beyond in attempting to produce and show us your future series. Good for YOU! As in all things: Make it RIGHT mechanically and functionally first, then concentrate on details and colors and finishes.

Make sure you have an Instagram account running. Hot ticket there.

Me: I concentrate on overall displays: Open, closed, backside and backspine areas. It seems to be exactly what the viewers wish to see. Drama angular shots are best after the 'boring' sideviews!

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I agree that mechanics are first and foremost. I do have instagram but to be honest its not exactly taking off. I really dislike social media, prior to this I have never had any accounts on any platforms. I should put more effort into it for sure. I will check out your site and your photos. I appreciate any help and input I can get. I want to make the best knives possible. Its very helpful to get feedback on as many aspects as i can.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

I will try to post up a video of the action and operation of the knife here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3PpEYoDlEw/

Let me know if this works... It shows the action with the bushing style pivot fully tightened. There is no blade play in any direction.

I have 2 more in the works I'm just waiting on some tooling. As far as changes go I intend to have an external lockbar relief to allow for more aggressive contouring to hopefully improve ergos and reduce weight. I will try my hand at some internal milling to further reduce weight as well. I think I will also only pocket the ti because the hardened blade is very difficult to machine and I need to ensure its flat. I will also make the clip slightly more deep carry by milling closer to the attachment screw. I will play with finishes as well. I may invest in some cerakote equipment and try some coated blades. I have some new blast media to test and I'm hoping it will give me a nice dark finish on the titanium handles.

As always I'm eager to hear feedback suggestions etc. I want to be able to provide something that is appealing to knife collectors and users. Even if you only have criticisms please share them.

Thanks for reading

 

[t.willy]

Excellent looking Knife. Being a Canadian myself it's great to hear of a custom knife maker this side of the border that I can actually afford to buy from lol. I don't know squat about building knives but I know what I like and I definitely like the look of your first model. I'll likely be interested in buying one of these whenever your up and running. Good luck. ✌

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Excellent looking Knife. Being a Canadian myself it's great to hear of a custom knife maker this side of the border that I can actually afford to buy from lol. I don't know squat about building knives but I know what I like and I definitely like the look of your first model. I'll likely be interested in buying one of these whenever your up and running. Good luck. ✌

Thanks,
I saw your message on Instagram. I have two more in the works now that I intend to experiment on. I'm hoping that I can get everything figured exactly how I want it and start actually selling a few knives soon. I have spend the last few months dedicating all my free time to learning about framelocks so my throughput has been pretty low. I'm really focusing on efficiency in the build process so I can make the most out of my time. I'm glad you like the design its been a work in progress for quite a while now.

 

[REK Knives]

Here's an idea for pickets pockets on the inside... And you wouldn't even need to texture the outside much if you did this

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

Here's an idea for pickets pockets on the inside... And you wouldn't even need to texture the outside much if you did this

Thanks for the suggestion. That looks great. I think I will try something like that but ill keep it a little more basic. I don't want to get too close to the outside because I want to be able to contour aggressively. If the contouring doesn't turn out Ill give something like this a go. I Will likely just mill a slot lengthwise inside the frame and see how it turns out.

 

[Stang Bladeworks]

So far I haven't received too much feedback but I did get word that cpm154 was a little less than desirable. I have ordered some M390 to try out. I have never worked with it before so it may blow up in my face but if it goes well and I can heat treat it to my liking I may switch to M390 and retain the same price for now. I have ordered enough to make 5 knives (if all goes well...). I have also ordered a small billet of timascus which is something else I have never used but want to try. My plan is to do some backspacers with it. I would like to be able to offer the first few knives with some extras to show my appreciation for anyone who chooses to buy one. I still am working on 2 in cpm154 right now. I will test a few things out and try to iterate based on my personal preference and feedback from the community. So far I really like the design but I have a few changes in mind. I have also received my wiha torx drivers and zipper pouches. I am happy with both and intend to include them with the knives.

As always please provide any feedback you may have.