I know I am rehashing an old topic, but I just have to know. I decided not to get a Starmate due to the chipping problems found in some of the magazine tests, but I see in the archives that the hardness has been lowered. Does that mean for sure that if I order a Starmate that it will have the lower hardness (and won't chip easily)?
starmate chipping
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Sal Glesser
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Rep - To my knowledge, we have never had a Starmate come back with chipping. The only example that we've ever heard of was the one in the magazine.
We've not been able to reproduce the results in the lab and he re sharpened his before we got a chance to look at it.
Perhaps the edge was too thin for that test?
Perhaps the test needs to be addressed?
I don't think that you will disappointed in a "Starmate". IMO There is little to compare it with in terms of build quality, and reliable high performance...at any price.
sal
We've not been able to reproduce the results in the lab and he re sharpened his before we got a chance to look at it.
Perhaps the edge was too thin for that test?
Perhaps the test needs to be addressed?
I don't think that you will disappointed in a "Starmate". IMO There is little to compare it with in terms of build quality, and reliable high performance...at any price.
sal
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Rep,
Just a quick testimonial for ya!
First, I have two Starmates. I never buy two of the same model of knife unless I REALLY feel it is a superlative product. But, that is just my opinion and really means nothing.
Anyway,
I was using the plain edge Starmate the other day to quick cut some cardboard and ran over three hidden staples by accident. It dulled the edge in the spots where it connected, but did not chip the blade. When I got home, I put the knife to the Sharpmaker and the blade came back to life pretty quick.
The Starmates' 440V blades are very good performers for me. Most of my cutting chores involve cutting fibrous materials like cardboard, paper, manila rope, wood and other plant matter. Spyderco's 440V has not failed me yet. Neither in my Military or my Starmates.
I hope this helps!
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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu
Just a quick testimonial for ya!
First, I have two Starmates. I never buy two of the same model of knife unless I REALLY feel it is a superlative product. But, that is just my opinion and really means nothing.
Anyway,
I was using the plain edge Starmate the other day to quick cut some cardboard and ran over three hidden staples by accident. It dulled the edge in the spots where it connected, but did not chip the blade. When I got home, I put the knife to the Sharpmaker and the blade came back to life pretty quick.
The Starmates' 440V blades are very good performers for me. Most of my cutting chores involve cutting fibrous materials like cardboard, paper, manila rope, wood and other plant matter. Spyderco's 440V has not failed me yet. Neither in my Military or my Starmates.
I hope this helps!
------------------
The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
Rep, I use my Starmate #702 during almost a year and no blade chipping occurred so far.
As to magazine tests, I would take these results with some distance. All is the question of what should be proved and the only problem is to choose suitable method to prove what required. Do you want to prove blade chipping? OK, give me each knife and I'll prove it's prone to chipping!
To do not seem biased I'll try to justify my standpoint. Some magazine tests are quite abusive and torturing knives in conditions they are not designed for. But sometimes I'm pretty surprised why some knives are abused more and another less? Everyone knows what is knife use, but how to dose knife abuse to test it reliability?
Use your Starmate what it is designed for and you will never have any problems with it
For more info please visit my review here: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001320.html
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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 05-28-2000).]
As to magazine tests, I would take these results with some distance. All is the question of what should be proved and the only problem is to choose suitable method to prove what required. Do you want to prove blade chipping? OK, give me each knife and I'll prove it's prone to chipping!
To do not seem biased I'll try to justify my standpoint. Some magazine tests are quite abusive and torturing knives in conditions they are not designed for. But sometimes I'm pretty surprised why some knives are abused more and another less? Everyone knows what is knife use, but how to dose knife abuse to test it reliability?
Use your Starmate what it is designed for and you will never have any problems with it
For more info please visit my review here: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001320.html
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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 05-28-2000).]
Cliff Stamp
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Sergiusz, the magazine used the brass rod test which is a fairly common standard for edge durabilty. As for being able to chip any steel, work with some really ductile and tough spring steels and see if you have the same opinion.
Concerning "abuse" to examine function, high stress use can give you performance estimates of normal use very quickly. It however should never be used as a replacement for actual work.
-Cliff
Concerning "abuse" to examine function, high stress use can give you performance estimates of normal use very quickly. It however should never be used as a replacement for actual work.
-Cliff
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Cliff, don't you think that the test against the same brass rod (BTW, with non-calibrated force) both thin hollow ground edge on pocket-sized knife and thick convex edge on survival knife is the test method's abuse as itself?
I do not need any tests to prove that thin high performance edge on my Starmate is much more fragile than powerful convex ground edge on my Fallkniven A1. But these knives are designed for basically another purposes and it is a hug exaggeration to compare their performance testing with the same methods. This I had in my mind writing about testing method's fitting into required results.
I think it is a time to say unambiguously: it is no way to obtain the edge which would be sharp and powerful at the same time. The edge can be sharp or powerful and your choice depends on your knife intended use.
Maybe I'm also exaggerating defending one of my very favorite knives but only slightly
As to spring steels - they have another drawbacks concerning their use in knife industry. No one steel is ideal and outperforming each other, but it is a topic for another discussion, right?
I do not need any tests to prove that thin high performance edge on my Starmate is much more fragile than powerful convex ground edge on my Fallkniven A1. But these knives are designed for basically another purposes and it is a hug exaggeration to compare their performance testing with the same methods. This I had in my mind writing about testing method's fitting into required results.
I think it is a time to say unambiguously: it is no way to obtain the edge which would be sharp and powerful at the same time. The edge can be sharp or powerful and your choice depends on your knife intended use.
Maybe I'm also exaggerating defending one of my very favorite knives but only slightly
As to spring steels - they have another drawbacks concerning their use in knife industry. No one steel is ideal and outperforming each other, but it is a topic for another discussion, right?
By mistake I struck a steel table with mine, but the serrated tooth didn't chip, instead it bent, and this is probably not one of the ones with the lowered hardness (which I hadn't heard about before).
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Latest updates Al Mar Falcon Ultralight, Moki Hana, Fällkniven WM1 neck sheath
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Latest updates Al Mar Falcon Ultralight, Moki Hana, Fällkniven WM1 neck sheath
"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999
Sal Glesser
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Cliff - What is the "Standard" diameter of the brass rod? Different diameters are sure to produce different results.
BTW - did you receive our test pieces?
sal
BTW - did you receive our test pieces?
sal
Cliff Stamp
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Sal, 1/4" seems common, smaller will induce a more severe deformation as you noted, which of course also depends on how hard you push on it. Most descriptions I have read indicate that you do so until the edge just begins to deform, if you really leaned at max strength and put a few hundred pounds on the edge I am pretty sure you could probably put a perm. bend or chip in any steel.
I have never actually done the brass rod test so I have no idea what it means in terms of durability during use. The idea seems sensible however and I do plan to eventually get around to it as it is a well used standard. No sign of the Guntings yet, which doesn't surprise me as mail here is by pony express.
Sergiusz, I think what is critical is not what is done with the blades but the conclusions that are drawn from it.
-Cliff
I have never actually done the brass rod test so I have no idea what it means in terms of durability during use. The idea seems sensible however and I do plan to eventually get around to it as it is a well used standard. No sign of the Guntings yet, which doesn't surprise me as mail here is by pony express.
Sergiusz, I think what is critical is not what is done with the blades but the conclusions that are drawn from it.
-Cliff
Sal Glesser
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Personally, I must say that I am pleased to have visitors like Cliff & Serg contributing as we "seek the truth".
Misque, Griffon - thanx for the support. Real world testing & feedback is still the ultimate test.
sal
Misque, Griffon - thanx for the support. Real world testing & feedback is still the ultimate test.
sal