StarMate

Strider · Jan 26, 1999

Sal
I posted a similar thread on the gen.dis forum.While looking at E-Bay I saw some knock-off's for sale and one looked alot like the StarMate. How do charlatons like them put out a knife faster then a company like yours?Is this legal? Are there any resources available to stop things like this? I believe the co.is called Masters or something similar.What does Terouzola think about a company ripping off his design? Also it wasn't just one of yours I saw but others to. One was a version of a SO/COM. I just don't think this is right.
Bob

Mark W Douglas · Jan 26, 1999

Yea, this is a good subject ... I see many rip-offs of many different knives out there.

A lot of imitation Spyderco's and other name brand knives, too.

One company that comes to mind are FURY knives. It seems as though copies is all they do make, correct me if I am wrong!

GOOD QUESTION STRIDER

Maybe Sal will shed some light on this subject of imitations or rip-offs

Mark

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Dexter Ewing · Jan 26, 1999

Hi Bob - what you probably saw was the Bob T Starfighter rip off (...not a Spyderco rip off per se) by Master Knives. I can't believe they knocked the SOCOM too! Though I do not advocate this practice at all, but it's just a matter of time till they knock off the Commander

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Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"

Sal Glesser · Jan 26, 1999

Yes this does exist and Dexter is correct. The Starmate is a modification of Bob "T's" Starfighter.

There seems to be a lot of controversy regarding the copying of other designs. Some feel that it is an acceptable practice because the lower price is a different market. Some feel that is not acceptable. I guess it depends on whether or not you are the one doing it.

My own opinion is that it is an unethical practice performed by thieves. Essentially they wait until a design is in demand. Then they in fact "steal the design and/or pattern" (somebody's hard effort no doubt). Then they steal the advertising and promotion that created the demand. They "steal" all of the Research and development needed to finally end up with the finished product. They make a much lesser quality product (some made out of pure camel dung), and ride on the wave legitimately created by the original designer / manufacturer.

These experts have been doing this so long that they have their moves down. We sued one company 3 times. each time they closed up and reopened their business under another name the next day. Keep in mind that patents are expensive, defending those patents is very expensive as well. Return is usually zero, just slowing down their distribution.

It takes all kinds of animals to make a forrest. Without the leaches and the mosquitos, you don't appreciate the hawks and the deer. We learn from A-holes not to be an A-hole, they make the best teachers.

If you don't like this kind of businees dealing, don't buy them. Teach your friends not to buy them. Embarrass your dealer that carries them. We have not been able to make them go away. Many years and many thousands of dollars later, all we can do is continue to fight.
sal

Dexter Ewing · Jan 26, 1999

Sal - thanks for your info. I've been amazed (and at times, amused) at these piece of crap knock offs I see at local gun and knife shows. I guess people like them because it's essentially the same design as a $150 knife, only available for $15 or so. But sooner or later, they will find out that in the world of knives - you get what you pay for.

Sounds like the legal battles against these rip offs are long and arduous. You start feeling like a one-legged man in an a$$ kickin' contest, huh?

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Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"

[This message has been edited by Dexter Ewing (edited 26 January 1999).]

Strider · Jan 27, 1999

Sal
Thanks for the insight. I realize it was more a direct rip-off of Bob Terazoulas design. But in a big sense it's more so a rip-off of SpyderCo.Your the one who negotites with the various Custom Makers and knocks heads together to come up with a design and then all the business end hassles of incorporating and bringing the design out to guy's like us.And then just before the fruits of your labors come to pass "BAM" some A%#hole pops out with a cheap version. It must be pretty frustrating to go through that and not have any legal recourse.The other bad thing about most knock-off's is that they are an accident waiting to happen because of the shoddy way they are produced. I just find it amazing how fast these guys can copy and rip you off almost overnight it seems.Well I'm still eagerly awaiting your version of the StarMate even if its quadruple the price of the knock-off's LOL.You get what you pay for.
Bob

Sal Glesser · Jan 27, 1999

Bob - Thanx for the support. The irony is that the wholesle price of these $15 "knock offs" is less than you would pay for a couple of candy bars, so the incentive for the dealer to promote them is great. Where else can you get 5 - 8 times your money. You just have to justify the moral issue in your own head. Oh well, I guess money does make most of the world go 'round. At Spyderco, we are appreciative of the fact that there are enough people that truly care about the quality and performance of a product, to keep companies like us in business.
sal

Doug Mason · Jan 30, 1999

I'm holding off on all other major purchases until that Starmate gets released. I'm crossing my fingers that the 440v is still the planned steel for the knife.

I'll probably dump a dozen other knives for this one when it is released, it will be my daily carry for sure!

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions in these forums Sal, you have already gone above and beyond the call and you also re-affirmed my feelings towards Spyderco and it's products.

--Doug

Dexter Ewing · Jan 31, 1999

Hi Doug - yes, 440V is still planned for the Starmate. For those of you who might have already seen the new Spyderco consumer catalog, I have been informed by their marketing department that there is a little error in the Starmate's specs in there. It lists edge type as being only 60/40, but they have told me that plain will be offered as well.

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Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"

Sal Glesser · Jan 31, 1999

Doug - thank you.

The Bob "T" "Starmate" does have 440V. One nested full length liner. Thre will be a plain edge. They are being assembled as we speak. Some Production prototypes (made from production parts but assembled off line) are at the SHOT Show. (I believe Joyce has one plain edge for Dexter?) Delivery is still scheduled for late FEB. Should be a very nice (& tough) daily carry piece of equipment.
sal