Starting Out - Som High Level Questions. Mainly grinder related

A

AKShooter907

Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
14
Hello

I'd like to make some knives from scratch. I've done everything but make a blade. Have done leather and kydex sheaths, handled blanks, etc. Also just have a decent collection of nice knives, quite a few benchmades, and similar. Looking to make around 5-20 knives a year. Not really interested in commercial sales.

But I want to make some smaller fixed blade knives, and give a go at some kitchen knives. To date I have steel orders in. Ordered some S35V ground stock for the smaller knives, went with 1/8" and around 1 1/2". For larger knives, went with some Nitro V. For now I'll be sending everything out for heat treatment.

For the grinder, I have ordered the new Grizzly 2x42 (backordered), and I've also ordered a glass platen for it. This is question 1. I've read all the posts here, watched a bunch of youtubes, and also rersearched 2x72 grinders. I realize the 2x42 is not going to be a workhorse, but what I'm wondering is if it's capable of what I'd call "professional grinds" Obviously the final outcome will be 100% dependent on me. My skill level is the weak link at this point. I can swing a 2x72, but the size is a little more than I want in the garage, for how much I'll use it. But if the 2x72 vs the 2x42 has an extreme difference, or in the 2x72 will just be easier for a novice, I'd rather just start there. Thoughts?

Lastly is the heat treat. From all the videos and posts here, folks seem to be heat treating before grinding in that 1/8" or thinner. My plan is to profile, then send out for heat treating. Then grind. But also planning on sending out 10-15 profiled blades out of the gate due to heat treating cost. So want to be smart about it. Does this seem like a reasonable plan with the steels I've identified above.

Still in the research phase. But also tooling up. I'll keep reading here and watching reference videos, just wanted to throw these inquiries to the group. Thanks!
 
I think as long as you have a good supply of good quality belts, there's no reason why the smaller grinder can't provide you with what you're looking for
 
Welcome to Shop Talk, AKShooter907.

As you pointed out a "professional grind" is about 95% the person doing the grinding and 5% the machine they grind on.
Many great knives are made with nothing but files, sandpaper, and stones.

That said, the new VS Grizzly 2X42 will get you started just fine. What it lacks is power. When starting you don't really need much power, so it will be OK. One caution - don't use the structured carbide belts like Cubitron, etc. They need heavy pressure and speed to fracture the grains, or they will just glaze over and be pretty much useless. It will be up to you to decide when you are ready to step up to a much more powerful and versatile grinder and accessories.
 
Can you explain your last part about heat treating, "out of the gate". ?


Otherwise, most of what you said rings true.... You seem to have a grasp. :)

5-20 is a big range.

5 knives, a crappy grinder is Ok.

I bust my butt last year, spending Many Many hours at the grinder..... Each knife
I didn't make 20.

Yup, I'm slow.... But still.

If....you want to make more than 5..... Get a 2x72
 
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Crag the Brewer said:
Can you explain your last part about heat treating, "out of the gate". ?
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I was really looking at jumping all the way in and getting a heat treating kiln. But the new plan would be to rely on others, and just sending them out to have them heat treated for me for a bit. If it's something I get hooked on, then being able to heat treat in-house would be the next step.

So with everything on order, I'll stay the course and see how the 2x42 works out. Belts for the 2x42 was discussed above. Reading Red Labels description, both the Zirconia and the ceramic belts are advertised as "revealing new cutting surfaces". Does this mean I should just be sticking with standard aluminum oxide belts? With the grizzly sander?
 
Never used one, but looking at it I'd say the 2x42 will do everything the 2x72 will just with less power. The belts probably won't last as long, but starting out they should be fine.
I would think you'll want to try lots of different belts and see what you like and what works for you.
 
Hello and Welcome to Shop Talk, AKShooter907,

I have a 2x72 am going to get a 1x30 for small knives, I suspect that those steels will be a PITA to grind when hardened, burnt fingers and more time dipping than grinding. A shoulder jig will give professional looking results almost immediately. If you can get the 2x72, then go for it. If you decide its not for you the 2x72 will be far easier to sell on and I suspect that you wont lose much on the purchase price. the 2x42 would still sell but not as easy and you will lose more on the outlay.

What grinds are you eventually expecting to put on those blades? I would want to get as much ground before HT as possible. sending out 10-15 blanks why? I have found that I want to make different styles of knives to learn differing skill sets, HT all those at once will give very little room for maneuver in that regard, There is a thread going already where the first knife is a Kephart and the next knife, In January, is to make a Bowie, etc. Flexibility and adaptability are eliminated with HT so many blanks approach, take it in steps.
 
With 2X42 grinder use the AO belts rather than ceramic belts. While AO belts don't require much pressure or speed to work and will be just fine to learn and start with. With your order add one Zirconia belt to try - you might find it works good alsol.
 
I started on a 2x42 and just got a 2x72 back in March/April of this year. The difference is night and day. I went from 1/3hp single speed to a 3hp with a vfd and couldn’t believe how much easier it was even though the internet had been telling me for over a year. It was difficult to keep from overheating the blades on the 2x42 and anything finer than 120 grit was essentially worthless to me because it would heat up way too fast. Also you really can’t apply much pressure while you’re grinding which makes it difficult to get a consistent grind and leads to longer hand sanding times. I pretty much had to rely on a bevel guide for the entire grinding proce to get a very consistent grind on the 2x42. I’ve certainly gotten a lot better at free hand grinding on the 2x72. It’s made everything significantly easier and has cut down my hand sanding time by probably 1-2 hours per knife. A 2x42 is certainly sufficient to start out with but once the knife making bug really bites you you’ll outgrow it quickly. You can definitely make a nice knife on a 2x42 but in my experience it’s far more time consuming and somewhat more difficult.
 
Def check out the 2x42 grizzly thread. There are some pretty easy upgrades to be made. I'm using mine for the first time post upgrade right now and it's not even the same grinder. I maybe spent 3 hours and 100$ doing the updates. Like Stacy said it's all in the holder and not the tool. If you go watch Walter Sorrells grinder review videos on YouTube he makes some damn nice knives with 80-150$ grinders. I'm currently grinding my 8th knife, I suck but it's way easier now. I will say that's some damn fancy metal to be starting out with. Maybe get some 1084 and mild steel to start out with and do some practicing bevels on the mild. So far I've tossed quite a few pieces of 1084 in the scrap bucket hopefully my ability can catch up and possibly fix them.
 
I've made many, many knives on a craftsman 2x42, the learning curve was steep, but 5-20 knives a year on a 2x42 is not unreasonable..and the craftsman was not variable speed, or anywhere near as well set up for knifemaking as the grizzly.
 
My first grinder was a single speed 2x42. Things got better when I got a glass platen. I now own the Grizzly 2x42. I've did some finish grinds on hardened 80CRV2 blades and am in the process of grinding some 14C28N blades. I've rough shaped and hopefully do initial bevel grinds tomorrow afternoon. I'm sure a 2x72 2 HP VFC control grinder would be fantastic, but as a hobbyist, I think this will be fine, for now. I've been seeing a lot of comments about it being under power, don't use ceramic belts, etc. I don't get it. I've tried to load the motor at different speeds. Yes I can slow it some, maybe 20% if tachometer on controller is correct, but haven't been able to make it come to a complete stop like a could with my single speed. I haven't experienced glazing yet and I only run ceramic belts, up to 220 grit (Maverick and Combat). I'm sure I'll start trying higher number grit belts as I get used to the variable speed and play with it. I personally think you'll be fine learning on this system.
The one suggestion is take your time, don't rush.
 
Look for VSM 880 or VSM 885 belts they are ceramic but are designed for less pressure than cubitron belts. They will last a lot better than AO belts for grinding blades. Popsknifesupply has the 880 in 2x48 belts which I’ve seen people say works on that grizzly but I haven’t tested that myself. Trugrit has some merit ceramic belts in 2x42 that I remember being decent but not as good as the nicer vsm belts. Most belt suppliers can custom order the line of belts you want in any size you may just have to get 10-20 at a time.
 
Joshua Fisher said:
Look for VSM 880 or VSM 885 belts they are ceramic but are designed for less pressure than cubitron belts. They will last a lot better than AO belts for grinding blades. Popsknifesupply has the 880 in 2x48 belts which I’ve seen people say works on that grizzly but I haven’t tested that myself. Trugrit has some merit ceramic belts in 2x42 that I remember being decent but not as good as the nicer vsm belts. Most belt suppliers can custom order the line of belts you want in any size you may just have to get 10-20 at a time.
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The vsm 880,885 2x48s indeed work on the grizzly. I used both of them today.
 
aareeyesee said:
The vsm 880,885 2x48s indeed work on the grizzly. I used both of them today.
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In that case I’d definitely recommend the vsm 880, those have been the best performance to cost belts I’ve used and I’ve tried just about every belt on the market. That said everyone will have a different approach to grinding so what works well for one person may not work as well for another so it’s always worth trying multiple belts for yourself. But I do think the 880 would work very well on the grizzly with lower pressure than what you could get away with on a bigger motor.
 
Well,,,,,,while I keep watching the grizzly modifications, the unit is still backordered. I ended up ordering a Reeder 2x72 chassis, LOL. I guess I'd rather just start with a typical format. Time is valuable to me, so even if it's just minutes, or it lowers the learning curve I'm game. Grinder is about the last thing I'll get to the house, but porta-banded a few rough shapes today, getting close to making sparks...
 
You will be pleased with the Reeder chassis. Add a motor and VFD package and you are ready to grind. I like this guy, he is also on eBay: Witmer Motor Service..
 
If you have the space you made the right decision. I would love to buy a 2x72 but I have to store everything in garage. Move it outside to grind, preferably to back yard, then back into garage. So size and electrical requirements drive my grinder decisions. Congrats on purchase.
 
A Harbor Freight or similar rolling shop cart works fine for making equipment portable.

My recommendation:
The Reeder mobile base unit is very sturdy and made to mount the Reeder Grinder. I would almost call it a necessary add-on for many hobby makers with a small shop.
Ways to make the mobile base even better:
On the sides, you can bolt on thin-wall tubing to store extra tool arms, bolts that stick out to hang wheels, and other grinder accessories. You can mount your spark bong or catch bucket under the grinder on the bottom frame. On the back put a power cord reel to hold the extension cord. If the outlet is reasonably close to where you grind, get a retractable power cord from HF or Amazon.
 
I currently have grinder and vice mounted on a Tough Built Universal Saw Stand that isn’t too bad for moving. The issue is power. A typical 1hp electric AC motor has a full load draw of 16 amps. Most conventional electrical outlets (my house is 1960’s vintage) are 15A. I realize nominal draw is 6-6.5 A, but I’m a bit on the hesitant running an electric motor, max 16A draw on a 15A circuit. I have 12 gauge wire extension cords, but I would need to run a 20A plug/circuit somewhere, and then be tied to that location for all my grinding. So, for time being, I’m running the smaller grinders.
 
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