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Startup shop equipment
- Thread starter LGOP
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2011
- Messages
- 5,047
A good 2x72 belt sander, variable speed if possible
Dust collection system if you can swing it and good respirator
A good drill press and quality twist drills
Evenheat or Paragon heat treat oven
Forge
5 Gallon pail of commercial quench oil, Parks #50, AAA or something else.
Anvil, at least 150lb
Assortment of hammers, tongs
Horizontal/vertical metal bandsaw
Large vise, ideally with rotating jaws
Carbide faced file guide, search Bruce Bump file guide or Uncle Al's file guide
Good assortment of quality hand files
Lots of lighting.
Leave lots of budget for abrasives
Leave budget for materials - blade steel, guard and handle materials, adhesives, pin stock or fasteners
Leave money for things you can't possibly think of right now. It NEVER ends. There is always something else you need or want.
Dust collection system if you can swing it and good respirator
A good drill press and quality twist drills
Evenheat or Paragon heat treat oven
Forge
5 Gallon pail of commercial quench oil, Parks #50, AAA or something else.
Anvil, at least 150lb
Assortment of hammers, tongs
Horizontal/vertical metal bandsaw
Large vise, ideally with rotating jaws
Carbide faced file guide, search Bruce Bump file guide or Uncle Al's file guide
Good assortment of quality hand files
Lots of lighting.
Leave lots of budget for abrasives
Leave budget for materials - blade steel, guard and handle materials, adhesives, pin stock or fasteners
Leave money for things you can't possibly think of right now. It NEVER ends. There is always something else you need or want.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 1999
- Messages
- 9,910
Marc, Thanks for mentioning my file guides.
You didn't mention if you want to forge steel or do stock removal only. I think you should start with stock removal, you should be able to afford a surface grinder if you don't forge. You can always forge later after things take off.
You didn't mention if you want to forge steel or do stock removal only. I think you should start with stock removal, you should be able to afford a surface grinder if you don't forge. You can always forge later after things take off.
synthesist
So many knives so little time
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 933
Several workbenches preferably made to suit your height,work style and tools. Some with a working surface of fiberboard - cheap and easy to replace over 2 layers of 3/4" plywood, some with a 12 gauge metal top- easy to clean up grease/grimy stuff and very tough.
Really, really good eye protection. I leave garage sale acquired glasses /goggles at each machine.
Hearing protection too I use my shooting muffs
Specialized first aid kit. A good start can be found here: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/a-woodworkers-first-aid-kit/
Digital calipers and some other measuring tools.
Decent shop vacuum (quietest you can find)
A decent ergonomic shop stool/chair or 2 even.
Task lighting (halogen with cool to the touch shades). The more the merrier. An Optivisor (you'll wanna get up close) with a head lamp
Handtools: A good selection of handsaws: hack (selection of bi-metal blades), coping and razor
Screwdrivers, Weha or Wera ball end allen wrenches and wrenches
Lots of files in different cuts, styles and lengths
Exacto knives or single edge razor blades
Scrapers
Soldering equipment
A variety of sanding blocks, different sizes, lengths, materials for different hand sanding situations (probably homemade)
A granite surface plate (or something else really flat) at least 18" x 12"
Swag Offroad Bandsaw table and a Milwaukee/DeWalt Portaband to mount in it. Bi-metal blades (14/18 teeth)
Dremel or Foredom tools and lotsa bits
Leatherworking or kydex working tools
Vicegrips/clamps (as many as you can find)
A compressor and 1 associated air tool = BLAST CABINET (anything else you use it for is gravy)
Small mill (bigger really is better on this tho), lathe and surface grinder with tooling for each
Sharpening setup for everything above and your knives
Selection of glues, cleaners and lubes i.e JB Weld, Gorilla glue, white lithium grease spray, Brake cleaner, acetone, rubbing alcohol
Some good tool storage/chest/boxes pegboards
Fire extinguishers
So I'm thinking about your budget and where it gets spent.
The grinder will the be heart of the shop at first. I'd give that $2,500 for the grinder and extras (you may want some exotic things from Nathan the machinist for example). Leaves $5500. $1500 to set up the shop: Benches (assumes you can build these yourself), seat, lights, tool chests, 1st aid kit, fire extinguisher etc. $4000 left. Suddenly that $8K looks like less................ Dust collector: $500. $3500 left. You see where I'm going here.
This is fun to think about but I'm sure glad I don't need to do it again.
Corey
Really, really good eye protection. I leave garage sale acquired glasses /goggles at each machine.
Hearing protection too I use my shooting muffs
Specialized first aid kit. A good start can be found here: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/a-woodworkers-first-aid-kit/
Digital calipers and some other measuring tools.
Decent shop vacuum (quietest you can find)
A decent ergonomic shop stool/chair or 2 even.
Task lighting (halogen with cool to the touch shades). The more the merrier. An Optivisor (you'll wanna get up close) with a head lamp
Handtools: A good selection of handsaws: hack (selection of bi-metal blades), coping and razor
Screwdrivers, Weha or Wera ball end allen wrenches and wrenches
Lots of files in different cuts, styles and lengths
Exacto knives or single edge razor blades
Scrapers
Soldering equipment
A variety of sanding blocks, different sizes, lengths, materials for different hand sanding situations (probably homemade)
A granite surface plate (or something else really flat) at least 18" x 12"
Swag Offroad Bandsaw table and a Milwaukee/DeWalt Portaband to mount in it. Bi-metal blades (14/18 teeth)
Dremel or Foredom tools and lotsa bits
Leatherworking or kydex working tools
Vicegrips/clamps (as many as you can find)
A compressor and 1 associated air tool = BLAST CABINET (anything else you use it for is gravy)
Small mill (bigger really is better on this tho), lathe and surface grinder with tooling for each
Sharpening setup for everything above and your knives
Selection of glues, cleaners and lubes i.e JB Weld, Gorilla glue, white lithium grease spray, Brake cleaner, acetone, rubbing alcohol
Some good tool storage/chest/boxes pegboards
Fire extinguishers
So I'm thinking about your budget and where it gets spent.
The grinder will the be heart of the shop at first. I'd give that $2,500 for the grinder and extras (you may want some exotic things from Nathan the machinist for example). Leaves $5500. $1500 to set up the shop: Benches (assumes you can build these yourself), seat, lights, tool chests, 1st aid kit, fire extinguisher etc. $4000 left. Suddenly that $8K looks like less................ Dust collector: $500. $3500 left. You see where I'm going here.
This is fun to think about but I'm sure glad I don't need to do it again.
Corey
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2011
- Messages
- 5,047
Not a problem Bruce. Your file guide has brought my work to another level. Money well spent.
LGOP, Here is a sobering thought and a little insight into how far $8000 will take you. Sure people can make knives on a budget. I think Wayne Goddard is the only guy who ever made a knife for under $50. But you are talking about setting up a shop. I am set up a little better than the guy making knives out of his apartment bedroom. I have a few more things than on my list but that list I made for you is still pretty basic stuff. Even so, with my basic operation I have over $20,000 invested. Most of the more experienced guys here have considerably more equipment, materials and supplies and therefore considerably more invested. Yes, you can get up and running for $8k. But if you want to set up a good working shop be mentally prepared to go where this path leads you.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 54
What do you want to be able to do? Making Damascus fixed blades requires different equipment to folding knives.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Messages
- 21,855
Before blowing that cash, I'd make one by hand first.
Decide do you want to make fixed or folder
Remember you can outsource heat treating, just buy damascus steel and use it without having to buy all the equipment
The little things will cost you more than you imagine.
I say start with a drill press and some files, everyone needs those anyway.
If you're set on it, a good 2x72 grinder with variable speed is a real assets
That will hit you for a few thousand right there.
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V34
The answer to a young student is different than a retired machinist
With members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or neighbour.
Join our community;fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.
Look at the threads at the top of the page.
The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives
Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673
The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n
Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Wheeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/956343-Damascus-integral-tag-along
Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm
Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43
BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203
Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, available and inexpensive.
Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.
Look at hundreds of photos
Start with a drawing and post it, we love photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810
Then a cardboard cutout template & with handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.
How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums
Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203
Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx
Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.
Jim Hrisoulas
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel
Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf
The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save
The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)
Forget the Goop Quench BS
Back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.
Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spikes, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
Proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo is inexpensive and quench in Canola.
Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.
The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders plans are now free on the web.
Videos
Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ
Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4
Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv
Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.
The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, tooling and machine stitching)
Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife
How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide
Videos for rent,read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait months
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking
Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw
Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk
Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files, railroad spikes and other unknown junkyard steels.
For the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.
For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheap & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160
Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736
Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results.
Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html
1095 is good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types
If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 CPM-s35vn Elmax, and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 due to minimum charges.
Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching
Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084
Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect a "tink" and a cracked blade
Don't quench in a plastic pail of oil
Glue – Epoxy
Use new slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it A “glue starved joint” is weak when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld-leaves a grey line
Grinder / Tools
Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.
spheroid annealed steel is butter soft to file.
Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527
Examples of filing jigs
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330
Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.
Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0
Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf
NWG No Weld Grinder-buy plans
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html
EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
What Belts to buy?
http://usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy.html
VFD Variable Speed made simple
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska steel pulleys are good plus shaft, bearings, belt
It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D
I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with finer control.
NEMA 1 VFD’s are designed to keep your fingers out and the metallic dust intrusion will smoke it.
Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you some use1700 RPM at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $100 for shipping to Canada I save $ on used motors
The 1.5 HP combination is the most common
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.
VFD
KBAC-27D
http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_AC_Drives_Inverters/AC_Drives_NEMA_4X.html
http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbda_manual.pdf
Use the Distributor Locator to find a local source, online sources may be cheaper.
There are cheaper units, but the only VFD I have found that runs a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC-27D
It is NEMA 4, sealed from metal dust
Good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings.
If you buy a bargain vfd, you're stuck with a chinglish manual and ridiculous programming.
I like that I can buy it in person from a local distributor in Canada.
Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.
Hookup is simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html
Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.
Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
If you can't breathe, nothing else matters.
Wearing a mask and glasses on the top of your head doesn't count.
The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf
and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for acetone and glue fumes.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes get fitted in person
Shave, also test the every time.
For beards
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II
Search
This Google page searches BF well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504
A shop visit
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1166688-How-to-get-a-shop-invite
V34 March 23, 2014 NW WIP
Decide do you want to make fixed or folder
Remember you can outsource heat treating, just buy damascus steel and use it without having to buy all the equipment
The little things will cost you more than you imagine.
I say start with a drill press and some files, everyone needs those anyway.
If you're set on it, a good 2x72 grinder with variable speed is a real assets
That will hit you for a few thousand right there.
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V34
The answer to a young student is different than a retired machinist
With members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or neighbour.
Join our community;fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.
Look at the threads at the top of the page.
The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives
Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673
The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n
Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Wheeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/956343-Damascus-integral-tag-along
Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm
Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43
BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203
Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, available and inexpensive.
Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.
Look at hundreds of photos
Start with a drawing and post it, we love photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810
Then a cardboard cutout template & with handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.
How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums
Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203
Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx
Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.
Jim Hrisoulas
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel
Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf
The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save
The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)
Forget the Goop Quench BS
Back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.
Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spikes, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
Proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo is inexpensive and quench in Canola.
Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.
The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders plans are now free on the web.
Videos
Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ
Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4
Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv
Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.
The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, tooling and machine stitching)
Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife
How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide
Videos for rent,read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait months
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking
Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw
Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk
Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files, railroad spikes and other unknown junkyard steels.
For the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.
For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheap & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160
Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736
Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results.
Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html
1095 is good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types
If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 CPM-s35vn Elmax, and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 due to minimum charges.
Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching
Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084
Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect a "tink" and a cracked blade
Don't quench in a plastic pail of oil
Glue – Epoxy
Use new slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it A “glue starved joint” is weak when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld-leaves a grey line
Grinder / Tools
Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.
spheroid annealed steel is butter soft to file.
Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527
Examples of filing jigs
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330
Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.
Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0
Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf
NWG No Weld Grinder-buy plans
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html
EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html
What Belts to buy?
http://usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy.html
VFD Variable Speed made simple
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska steel pulleys are good plus shaft, bearings, belt
It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D
I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with finer control.
NEMA 1 VFD’s are designed to keep your fingers out and the metallic dust intrusion will smoke it.
Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you some use1700 RPM at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $100 for shipping to Canada I save $ on used motors
The 1.5 HP combination is the most common
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.
VFD
KBAC-27D
http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_AC_Drives_Inverters/AC_Drives_NEMA_4X.html
http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbda_manual.pdf
Use the Distributor Locator to find a local source, online sources may be cheaper.
There are cheaper units, but the only VFD I have found that runs a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC-27D
It is NEMA 4, sealed from metal dust
Good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings.
If you buy a bargain vfd, you're stuck with a chinglish manual and ridiculous programming.
I like that I can buy it in person from a local distributor in Canada.
Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.
Hookup is simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html
Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.
Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
If you can't breathe, nothing else matters.
Wearing a mask and glasses on the top of your head doesn't count.
The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf
and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for acetone and glue fumes.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes get fitted in person
Shave, also test the every time.
For beards
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II
Search
This Google page searches BF well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504
A shop visit
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1166688-How-to-get-a-shop-invite
V34 March 23, 2014 NW WIP
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 2,914
The count is right, I would make a few knives on a shoestring budget to see if I enjoyed making knives before I spent $8K on tools and equipment. I will say that if you must spend that $8K then don't skimp. Spend it on quality stuff. When you buy quality you only cry once.
Gents, Thank you for all the advice so far. I guess giving more than two sentences of info would help you help me a little more.
I am a Army vet out of Fort Bragg, NC and have spent some time in my buddy's shop. While I haven't done much, the tasks I did do made me feel amazing. I'm currently finishing up my degree in business marketing and have started to develop a business plan. With a newborn son I don't want to just toss a good chunk of my savings at this lightly.
I plan on just stock removal for now. Strictly fixed blades at this point. I'm up in the air on if I'd like to do my own heat treating or send them off.
After LOTS of researching I understand the basic needs. But am looking for advice from you more experienced/wiser makers on specific brands/models that are worth the investment.
If you could do it all over again, and had $8,000 to start; how would you spend it?
I am a Army vet out of Fort Bragg, NC and have spent some time in my buddy's shop. While I haven't done much, the tasks I did do made me feel amazing. I'm currently finishing up my degree in business marketing and have started to develop a business plan. With a newborn son I don't want to just toss a good chunk of my savings at this lightly.
I plan on just stock removal for now. Strictly fixed blades at this point. I'm up in the air on if I'd like to do my own heat treating or send them off.
After LOTS of researching I understand the basic needs. But am looking for advice from you more experienced/wiser makers on specific brands/models that are worth the investment.
If you could do it all over again, and had $8,000 to start; how would you spend it?
synthesist
So many knives so little time
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Messages
- 933
You might wanna look at Salem Straub's spectacular article on grinders:
https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/grinders
That'll keep you busy for a bit...............
Corey
https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/grinders
That'll keep you busy for a bit...............
Corey
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2014
- Messages
- 10
Are you thinking of making blade smithing your full-time job ? I would ask the other makers on this site about that and their experience with that. Especially with a newborn baby at home, give it some thought.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,427
LGOP, I just have to ask if you intend to make a living off knife making or if you just want to make knives. If you think that you will make a good living by making and selling knives I think the average man can earn more money and have more security doing just about ANYTHING ELSE. Please talk to some knife makers first before you spend a lot of money expecting a big return. This is just my opinion but I think others might agree. Think this out before quitting your day job. If this will be a hobby then dive right in and start with a good grinder, platen and wheel and small wheel attachment. Get a drill press and a wood cutting band saw or scroll saw and buy a SWAG off road steel table to fit a Milwaukee or Dewalt Portaband saw and some bi-metal blades. High quality twist drills in fractional and numbered sets and as many types of files as you can afford. Think about a disc sander and a buffer. Buy a ton off good sand paper and 2x72 belts. Buy first rate steel and watch some DVDs by the pros like the Johnson and Loveless dvds . Read all the posts to this forum and pick up some good info. Don't buy second rate stuff because you will want better equipment later anyway and if you ever give it up you can easily sell good equipment. I learned this the hard way upgrading several pieces of my own equipment because I was foolish and cheap.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 4,299
Only plan on spending 8k if you're OK with the probability that you're NOT making it back for several years.
Now that being said, if I knew what I know now and started over with my current skills, what would I start out with if I had 8k to blow?
#1: Decent belt grinder.
#2: Decent drill press
#3: metal cutting band saw
Now, if you want to just stop right there for a minute... realize that you need to buy belts, bits, blades, contact wheels, platen liners, and a handful of other odds and ends just to make those first three tools useful.
That doesn't even account for work benches, misc. hand tools, and materials for the knives themselves. Sheaths and sheath making tools are a whole other ball of wax. What kind of sheaths do you want to make?
Heat treating is yet another area entirely.
I guess if we understand more specifically what your short term and long term goals are, we can narrow down what exactly you'll need a little better.
In the mean time, I'd definitely read EVERYTHING you could get your hands on about making knives, and what really goes into it.
Now that being said, if I knew what I know now and started over with my current skills, what would I start out with if I had 8k to blow?
#1: Decent belt grinder.
#2: Decent drill press
#3: metal cutting band saw
Now, if you want to just stop right there for a minute... realize that you need to buy belts, bits, blades, contact wheels, platen liners, and a handful of other odds and ends just to make those first three tools useful.
That doesn't even account for work benches, misc. hand tools, and materials for the knives themselves. Sheaths and sheath making tools are a whole other ball of wax. What kind of sheaths do you want to make?
Heat treating is yet another area entirely.
I guess if we understand more specifically what your short term and long term goals are, we can narrow down what exactly you'll need a little better.
In the mean time, I'd definitely read EVERYTHING you could get your hands on about making knives, and what really goes into it.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 1
$8k poof
Hengelo_77
Basic Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 6,319
I'd still keep the 8.000,- and first make one or a few by hand and then with minimal powertools.
If you do want to spend money, get a good grinder with a flat platen, a bubble jig and a file guide
I think the best investment will be time. Read, read, read.
(internet, the count's standard reply, books, etc)
If you do want to spend money, get a good grinder with a flat platen, a bubble jig and a file guide
I think the best investment will be time. Read, read, read.
(internet, the count's standard reply, books, etc)
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2003
- Messages
- 773
I'll be a bit non-traditional and say that if the knifemaking bug has really hit you and you believe that you have the skills, aesthetic tastes, and patience to make good looking and quality knives then you should immediately invest in a high quality variable speed belt sander with a variety of belts, a 4"-5" jaw vise, and an adjustable pantavise. You can do the rest with hand drills, hack saws, files, and sandpaper at first. . . . then invest in more equipment.
In my opinion, a good belt grinder is paramount to stepping towards a good finished product. My first purchase was a KMG grinder. The drill press, buffer, band saw, disk grinder, metal saw, Foredom rotary tool, torches, electo-etchers, etc. came later. If it were not for the KMG grinder, I would have quit the hobby early in desperation. If your aspirations don't work out, the belt grinder can be sold for minimal loss.
Good luck,
Mike
In my opinion, a good belt grinder is paramount to stepping towards a good finished product. My first purchase was a KMG grinder. The drill press, buffer, band saw, disk grinder, metal saw, Foredom rotary tool, torches, electo-etchers, etc. came later. If it were not for the KMG grinder, I would have quit the hobby early in desperation. If your aspirations don't work out, the belt grinder can be sold for minimal loss.
Good luck,
Mike
I still have another year to finish my college off. So I will have my GI bill as income, as well as my wife's income.
I don't plan to just "break into the knife making scene" or anything. But I just feel damn motivated and have a vision. Everyone started somewhere, and I feel that with my drive I can make it a successful venture in due time.
I'm doing a lot of reading and researching. It amazes me at how much material is online. I have been piecing together different making techniques I have seen into my own plan. I hope that with some of my designs I can create some useful tools!
I don't plan to just "break into the knife making scene" or anything. But I just feel damn motivated and have a vision. Everyone started somewhere, and I feel that with my drive I can make it a successful venture in due time.
I'm doing a lot of reading and researching. It amazes me at how much material is online. I have been piecing together different making techniques I have seen into my own plan. I hope that with some of my designs I can create some useful tools!
Willie71
Warren J. Krywko
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 12,214
If I was starting over, even though I am still a novice, I would go with a grinder first. I focused on heat treat first, and made functional tools almost from the get go, as my heat treat was helped out by the advice given here. You have the option of sending out for heat treat so you have to decide what you want to focus on. With your budget, I think you could focus on either, but when you figure in all the miscellaneous costs, you might be a bit short for both. What types of steels do you plan to work with?
I definitely have the most emphasis on picking a good grinder first. I understand the resale value, and simply wouldn't want to have to upgrade later. I think perhaps a Wilmont Grinder? That's mostly why I started the thread was to get specific brand recommendations on grinders, band saw, drill press, belts.
I think my first steel to be worked with will be 1095. Somewhat on the cheaper end, but still a worthy steel. I plan to cerakote my blades so I have no real worries about rust.
For heat treat I plan to send my work off and let the pros handle at first.
I think my first steel to be worked with will be 1095. Somewhat on the cheaper end, but still a worthy steel. I plan to cerakote my blades so I have no real worries about rust.
For heat treat I plan to send my work off and let the pros handle at first.
Yeah try to visit another knife makers shop to get an idea of what tools are needed and what tools spice things up a little. Yeah buying a good grinder from the get go will really help In the learning experience since you don't have to deal with the problems some of the cheaper ones have. I have a kmg grinder and the thing runs amazing. Sure there's better grinders and I wish I could tilt mine but hey I'm having a great time. It's not always the money spent its the fun of letting sparks fly and making beautiful tools and pieces of art. Also the feeling of people liking your work and supporting you is the best feeling ever. Knifemaking is fun but sure gets expensive fast.