Stealing Knife Designs?

[Fiddleback]

I had two designs stolen by a maker overseas. (The offender admitted to this when I managed to get in contact with him, after lots of complaints. So the copying, the theft, is fact.)

When he put the 'prototype' knives up on Ebay, friends and customers alerted me, and I put out the word. The offender was already in the process of having thousands made in Pakistan. He was flooded by concerned knife folks, and was banned from several forums. He apologized publicly, and cancelled production. This is the only reason I haven't mentioned his name here.

I think what you suggested above sounds like theivery unless the maker gave you permission to use his design. You knew this. Everyone is tought not to copy. In the knife community, or any other community except thieves guilds, you act with honor to earn respect. Then, you act with honor to keep it. The man that copied my work stole from my childrens table same as any criminal.

Someone mentioned Bob Loveless. I never had the honor to meet him unfortunately, but my understanding is that he allowed folks to copy his designs. Knowing the quality of the makers in this community, I'd bet they contacted him to ask before doing this. Good excuse to talk to a ledgend regardless of the answer.

Why not design your own knives? Sit down in a quiet room and draw knives, and make those. You won't loose sleep over that to be sure. Otherwise, your choices will dictate how this community will treat you.

 

[Dick]

Most knives especially Fixed Blade after they are finished making, you will always find the most similar knives that has been made by someone.
This is mostlikely because most knife makers using the smae way of knife grinding.

My point is that althought one does not intend to copy knife design but it is always posible tghat the new knives look similar old knives without intension.

Thuis may not answering the quote but it is some fact I would like to share.

 

[KnifeMaker.ca]

Original design isn't the only issue in reputation. This is a very sharing group, and secrecy / anonymity breed suspicion. I don't think Stacey was accusing you of being a Thai Knockoff shop - so much as pointing out the misunderstandings that could be avoided by sharing your profile with the group. This is a real friendly place if your intentions are honourable.

Rob!

 

[SShepherd]

Most knives especially Fixed Blade after they are finished making, you will always find the most similar knives that has been made by someone.
This is mostlikely because most knife makers using the smae way of knife grinding.

My point is that althought one does not intend to copy knife design but it is always posible tghat the new knives look similar old knives without intension.

Thuis may not answering the quote but it is some fact I would like to share.

except the fact that both posts ask if "copying" is acceptable or just "frowned upon"

in posts like these, the person has usually already made up their mind on doing it and are just looking for acceptance.

be it a copy/knockoff/clone, it's still stealing if you intend to profit from someone elses hard work. I think posting, " if I make a knife that looks like "xyz" knife and can make/sell it for half of what they do" demonstrates his intentions

 

[David Stifle]

Look at the title of his post- " Stealing Knife Designs?" If the question of stealing even enters your mind, you already know the answer.

Dave

 

[Dick]

Most knives especially Fixed Blade after they are finished making, you will always find the most similar knives that has been made by someone.
This is mostlikely because most knife makers using the smae way of knife grinding.

My point is that althought one does not intend to copy knife design but it is always posible tghat the new knives look similar old knives without intension.

Thuis may not answering the quote but it is some fact I would like to share.

Well, it seems to me that I am sharing my idea in the wrong place (threat) and at the wrong time

I just want to share my experience as a knife maker who is new in the field that after designing or making a knife, the work that come out may posibbly be similar to the works of others that has been donig one before.

My comment was on my personal experience and does not mean to support on the cloning of someone's work.

Sorry for that.

 

[JMJones]

In my opinion, If someone viewed a knife I made and made thier own copy or rendition, fine. If they sold it or it became a regular model that they made, fine. I would have an issue if a company made a production model but the chances of that are pretty slim. I think that often new makers start out copying or emulating other makers knives and usually develop a style of thier own with experiance.

 

[gga357]

Well, it seems to me that I am sharing my idea in the wrong place (threat) and at the wrong time

I just want to share my experience as a knife maker who is new in the field that after designing or making a knife, the work that come out may possibly be similar to the works of others that has been doing one before.

My comment was on my personal experience and does not mean to support on the cloning of someone's work.

Sorry for that.

Well I agree from a buyers stand point. I do a little hobby work, but not enough to ever worry about an idea being copied. I think 99% of knives could be binned into basic bins like, bowie, drop point, spear point and so on. You could qualify that with guard/handle style. But what sets the makers apart is their style more than design. The fit and finish.

If a good maker told me to copy one of their knives AND I was ABLE to do the knife justice, then I would think my skill would be good enough that I would be confident to just come up with my own style. Maybe my lack of experience causes me to look at this too simply.

 

[tryppyr]

I think that often new makers start out copying or emulating other makers knives and usually develop a style of thier own with experiance.

I agree with what you say, but not with the actions they describe.

I understand trying to uncover the secrets of a certain type of grind by actually doing one. I don't understand the value in trying to make a "copy" of something.

I'm opposed to giving someone a free pass to copy just because they are new. At what point does it become wrong to steal intellectual property? From a strictly legalistic and business sense, it's never premissible.

- Greg

 

[nadavis]

with an attitude like that, when dealing with a moderators request to fill out your profile, your time at this forum will be short lived

I don't care for forums in general but I needed to ask a collection of people who like knives about the general "group think" of people I would sell my product to.

Look at the title of his post- " Stealing Knife Designs?" If the question of stealing even enters your mind, you already know the answer.

Dave

Such a stupid response. The word stealing has many different meaning among different communities of individuals. I was simply trying to gain insight.

in posts like these, the person has usually already made up their mind on doing it and are just looking for acceptance.

I'm not looking for acceptance. I have NOT copied anyone. What I found during my research is that some makers copy others and I'm trying to figure out if that is usually accepted in the knife world since I've never seen that in other disciplines.

be it a copy/knockoff/clone, it's still stealing if you intend to profit from someone elses hard work. I think posting, " if I make a knife that looks like "xyz" knife and can make/sell it for half of what they do" demonstrates his intentions

My intentions? So great that you know everything about me by reading a few words on a forum. Good for you. Heaven forbid its just someone trying to learn how to do things the right way and not steal other designs UNINTENTIONALLY or to steal designs to make a profit from others hard work. I admire the hard work and innovation of Mick Strider and Ken Onion and would never copy their designs unless they said it was ok. However, I have noticed many knife makers copying others and it seems like its ok since no one sued.

Now I know its not ok and I can move on and make good knives.

Thanks to everyone who answered the question as intended. I pity those who judge based on shallow group think and immature reasoning skills.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

And newbies to the forum wonder why sometimes people hesitate to answer their questions , this thread should be a sticky as to why they may not get a response.

The water is getting littered with troll chum.....

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I think we can get a feel about the tone of where this person is comming from. I will make a call and lock the thread.