Steel Advice

[Randydb]

Built my own grinder and have it running nice. Profiled some handles on blanks that I bought. Now I want to try my hand at making my own blades (stock removal method of course). I would like to try doing a bushcraft styled knife, a skinner, and a necker. I want to send them out to be heat treated. I live slightly north of the Pacific Northwest in Canada and am outside in the weather daily with my work. OFTEN wet. I find my carbon steel knife needs a lot of attention and just plain gets forgotten at times and I wind up having to spend a fair bit of time cleaning it up. There are times where I have resorted to sanding it with 600 grit and working my way up to 2000 because it has become such a mess. Of course my stainless blade doesn't have these issues.

I see a lot of suggestions that beginners start with carbon steels. That is if they want to do their own HT right? If I plan to send out for HT it is okay to use a stainless as a beginner?

I see a lot of people sweating about which steel they use for a certain knife, but sometimes I think they may be needlessly sweating. I have seen bushcraft knives made with L6, A2 and O1 and they all were excellent knives. I am hoping that you guys could suggest a reasonable stainless for me as a beginner "grinder" to use. I see people posting about problems with different stainless and processes. Like it seems like with AEBL that you shape the blade, HT, then grind bevels. Am I just asking for headaches starting with stainless?

Finally, thickness... I have no clue what thickness to begin with for the 3 blades I would like to do. Is something in the 0.125 range about right for the skinner and bushcraft? A bit thinner for the necker? Remember, I am a beginner here and more focused on learning to grind than the nuanced 0.003 differences that can be had by..... You get the idea.

One more. I learned to make native american flutes years ago. I joined some forums, started 10 flutes up and worked through the processes. Got 3 good ones and a ton of lessons. Guys on the forums thought I was crazy...figured I should do one at a time. Should I be doing one blade...get what I get, then do another? OR get 6 pieces of steel, go for it, learn, send the best off to HT?

Thanks all.

 

[i4Marc]

Hey Randy,

I would say that if you were sending them out for a pro HT then the world is your oyster. Pick whatever steel best suits your application. Stainless sounds like the way to go for your environment. I don't know what kind of resources you have with you or nearby when out in the weather as far as sharpeners or other items for maintaining your knife. Maybe you can speak to that a bit to help other folks offer suggestions. Maybe you could also describe the kind of tasks you generally perform with your knives as well.

I think if you want to be able to easily touch up your edge in the field I'd look at AEB-L or Nitro-V. They are stainless, fine grain, and will sharpen easily. They also grind and finish pretty well. These steels offer good edge stability, toughness and the ability to get stupid sharp. Some folks have had warping issues. Since you are sending out for HT the blades should come back straight. These steels are available in stock as thick as 3/16". You might take a look at 440C as well.

If edge holding or wear resistance is more important to you then look at steels like S35VN, S90V, and other super steels. Keep in mind, high wear resistance steels will be more effort to finish and wear out sanding belts faster, not to mention your arms when hand sanding.

For small knives, 1/8" thick is fine. If you need a larger blade or one that will take a beating then go a bit thicker.

As far as batching knives, if you were heat treating them yourself I would say do one at a time. But since you are sending them out it would be more cost efficient to profile the blanks and send them out together. Then you can finish them one at a time so you can avoid making the same mistakes on all the blades.

 

[Randydb]

Hey Randy,

I would say that if you were sending them out for a pro HT then the world is your oyster. Pick whatever steel best suits your application. Stainless sounds like the way to go for your environment. I don't know what kind of resources you have with you or nearby when out in the weather as far as sharpeners or other items for maintaining your knife. Maybe you can speak to that a bit to help other folks offer suggestions. Maybe you could also describe the kind of tasks you generally perform with your knives as well.

I think if you want to be able to easily touch up your edge in the field I'd look at AEB-L or Nitro-V. They are stainless, fine grain, and will sharpen easily. They also grind and finish pretty well. These steels offer good edge stability, toughness and the ability to get stupid sharp. Some folks have had warping issues. Since you are sending out for HT the blades should come back straight. These steels are available in stock as thick as 3/16". You might take a look at 440C as well.

If edge holding or wear resistance is more important to you then look at steels like S35VN, S90V, and other super steels. Keep in mind, high wear resistance steels will be more effort to finish and wear out sanding belts faster, not to mention your arms when hand sanding.

For small knives, 1/8" thick is fine. If you need a larger blade or one that will take a beating then go a bit thicker.

As far as batching knives, if you were heat treating them yourself I would say do one at a time. But since you are sending them out it would be more cost efficient to profile the blanks and send them out together. Then you can finish them one at a time so you can avoid making the same mistakes on all the blades.

Well, my skinning knife will get used for processing deer, moose and elk when hunting.
I am an outdoor enthusiast as well as administrator and teacher at the Maple Ridge Environmental School. We are outside, hands on, every day. My necker and bushcraft would get used in those situations. Cutting, carving, chopping, fish cleaning, general purpose, even opening a can or two in a pinch. I usually have some form of stone or sharpener around school if I need to touch it up. Our school has a Ken Onion sharpener that gets used to sharpen our carving knives too.

I like "stupid sharp." The knife I carry the most now is a Helle Temagami and it gets wonderfully sharp and holds the edge long enough that I am happy. Easy enough to sharpen.

So I can see it is fine to go with stainless. You mention AEB-L and Nitro V together, 440c between them, and then the super steels in another class of being more wear resistant. With all of these steels, do I profile blanks, send for HT and then do bevels and all of the completing? Or are some done differently?

 

[S.Alexander]

Hey Randy, glad to see you finally got a grinder!

You could use a steel like 154cm. It grinds easily and you can basically grind it to 95% complete before sending it out for HT. It's not as expensive as cpm steels, and has been around a long time . Just don't forget to drill your handle holes before sending it out

I haven't used aeb-l or nitro v so I can't comment on those.

 

[skillgannon]

I'm from Bellingham WA and kinda have a idea what you are up against . I used M4 folders out there and did pretty well. They arnt stainless but do have some restance to rust and from what I understand most of the other tool steels like A2 or D2 do as well. If you are just starting I really think AEB-L is probably your steel. The reason being is cost. It does not cost a lot more than simple carbon steels. Also I would probably recommend that you try something a little thicker. When you are first starting out it can be hard to get the bevels right and thicker stock will give you room to correct mistakes. With a grinding magnet you can reflaten the blank. Others might tell you to go with thin stock because you don't have to grind as much it all depends on how you think and work. I do think you will be happy with the less expensive steel. There is a lot more performance in there than your off the shelf knife will make you believe.

 

[i4Marc]

There are other stainless steels or nearly stainless that also have good reputations and are popular like ats34/CPM154 and D2. Hopefully some more folks will come along and offer their thoughts about steels they would recommend and why.

The answer about when to grind bevels is.....it depends. You should definitely profile them first AND make sure all your handle holes are drilled. Whether or not you grind bevels before HT depends a lot on the thickness of the stock. The thinner pieces, like 1/8" or thinner will be good candidates for warping. This may not be such an issue if you are outsourcing the HT. Thicker blades like 3/16-1/4" are less likely to warp (but still do). It is also about the amount of grinding you will have to do after the blade is hardened and the possibility of generating too much heat and ruining the temper. With 1/8" stock there isn't a lot of material to remove after HT. Good temperature control is still important and you must keep the blade from getting too hot, regardless of blade thickness. But the thicker blades will require some time at the grinder to grind fresh bevels in post HT. You can't just lay on the pressure and hog it off the way you can pre-HT. You have to go slowly and keep dipping and cooling the blade as you go grinding. The thicker your blade the longer it takes to grind in the bevels and the longer the blade is exposed to the possibility of over heating. You can do it either way, before or after. Just be mindful of the heat and grind evenly on both sides of the blade so uneven stresses are not introduced to the blade. Even if your knife comes back straight as a laser from HT you can still warp it during grinding. Grinding unevenly is one way you can do that.

 

[Drew Riley]

Alpha Knife Supply just got some .100 AEB-L in stock. This wouldn't be a horrible choice for what you're wanting to do. If you do want a little bit thicker, They have thicker stock as well.

As for how many to work on at once, that's up to you. Depending on where you send for heat treat, some places will give a discount for multiple blades at once, so that is something to keep in mind.

 

[LARRYZ10]

If you are just starting grinding then you will probably have some problems with your first blades so maybe it is a good idea to buy steel that is not too expensive. You can buy smaller pieces of 440-C stainless steel from Jantz Knife Supply in 5/32 and 3/16 thicknesses. After you feel more confident then buy some 154 CM and then CPM 154 which finishes well and hardens well also. Good luck. Larry Here is a 440-C knife.

 

[Randydb]

Hi Shane, yes I am happy to have the grinder going. Took me long enough to get it done. I'm excited.

Alright then... Where I sit now. I just know that my early blades won't be top shelf...its a matter of experience and learning that is going to happen. So starting with something lower priced AEB-L makes sense. Still get some great qualities.

So for my necker 1/8 might work, but 3/16th would be better. For the skinner and bushcraft I should head for 3/16th or bigger. On the necker I can always grind some away on the flat if it is too thick.

I am also interested in these steels "almost" stainless steels for the future. Are they a carbon steel that is just resistant to rust? Do they spark a flint or ferro rod well?

Thanks.

 

[Randydb]

Alpha Knife Supply just got some .100 AEB-L in stock. This wouldn't be a horrible choice for what you're wanting to do. If you do want a little bit thicker, They have thicker stock as well.

As for how many to work on at once, that's up to you. Depending on where you send for heat treat, some places will give a discount for multiple blades at once, so that is something to keep in mind.

It was Alpha knife post that got me thinking and posting this thread. But unless I am reading this wrong, .100 is thinner than 1/8 (.125) right? (edited the fraction...meant 1/8 not 1/4)

Larry, that 440c knife you posted has some beautiful work in it. I suppose the fact that a steel has been around for a while doesn't mean it isn't going to make a great knife.

 

[Drew Riley]

It was Alpha knife post that got me thinking and posting this thread. But unless I am reading this wrong, .100 is thinner than 1/4 (.125) right?

Larry, that 440c knife you posted has some beautiful work in it. I suppose the fact that a steel has been around for a while doesn't mean it isn't going to make a great knife.

3/32 is .090
1/4" is .250
1/8" is .125
3/16" is .1875

Personally, I think 3/16" is pretty thick for a hunter/skinner, and the only time I ever use steel that thick (or thicker) is for very large knives, choppers, or possibly knives that I'm not going to be putting handle scales on.

For neckers and skinners, I like knives that are going to slice well, and this becomes more difficult the thicker the blade stock is. For bushcraft knives, 1/8 is the thickest I personally go, and 3/32" isn't out of the question.

Will AEB-L strike a ferro rod? I think it probably can, though I don't really understand why everybody is so opposed to using the scraper that comes with 99% of ferro rods. It usually works better, doesn't weight anything or take up any room, and it doesn't dull or scratch up your knife blade.

 

[Randydb]

3/32 is .090

Will AEB-L strike a ferro rod? I think it probably can, though I don't really understand why everybody is so opposed to using the scraper that comes with 99% of ferro rods. It usually works better, doesn't weight anything or take up any room, and it doesn't dull or scratch up your knife blade.

Yah...we have a bunch of ferro rods for firelighting with our students. I broke up 4 hacksaw blades, drilled a hole in each piece and that is the scrapers we use for them.

 

[A.McPherson]

Do they spark a flint or ferro rod well? .

Damn near anything sharp will spark a ferry rod. Only carbon will spark flint.

When you use a ferry rod, it’s the rod that burns. when you use a flint, it’s actually slicing off little slivers of steel that oxidize so quickly they heat up to the point that they will ignite.

At least that’s my understanding of the process...