Steel Advise For Fillet Knife, Please - -

R

rlinger

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Mar 29, 2002
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I have been dreading this for a long time because I knew it was just a matter of time before someone asked me to make a fillet knife.

This knife will be primarily made for Northern Pike and Walleye. I'm figuring, what, 10 inch blade length(?).

It should be stainless because the owner will be using it in The Bush. 440C or V ? ATS-34 ? Where is a good source for thin stock?

I hope Rhino sees this.

Thanks. RL
 
Hey Roger. I use 440C for filet knives. I've made a few and have (also) dreaded every one. They really aren't that bad. I use the triple quench/temper method Ed shared with us a couple years back and have had no complaints, even a couple compliments.
;)
 
Hi Roger, my turkey hunting buddy. I hope that others, more qualified
than me, will respond to your thread. I did make two fillet knives last winter from ATS 34 1/16" stock. I sent them to Paul Bos to heat treat to HRC of 58. They have worked just fine, maybe better than fine. I just profiled them and had them heat treated before doing the edge grinds. I know that I am very poor at grinding, but it was a chore to grind them. It's like grinding a wet noddle. I thought this would be the case, so I attached the blades to piece of wood backing to do the grinding. I was very glad that I made the blades only 6 1/2 " or they would not have worked so well. Between my Son and I, we have filleted 17 to 20" flounder, 10 to 20 pound stripped bass, and small panfish. I would not personally want the blade much longer than this. I think that 440C would be a better choice for corrosion resistance, but so far the ATS holds a good edge and no rust problems so far. I bought the ATS plate from Sheffield Knifemakers Supply ( 1-800-874-7007 ). Good luck, my friend.
 
Jay, I hope you're not suggesting I edge quench that long a#@$%$@# sumbeech(?).

Hey Jay, (it rymes!), can I have a prospect email you concerning what you think overall about the knife I sent Tess?? I got a fellow out west that wants a reference and I haven't sold enough yet to have a list of references. Most I have out there they refuse to use so there is no good end user data. You being a experienced maker could give him something to go by. All I ask is that your responce to him be totally unbiased without regard to my feelings. I hate to ask but, whether it be good or bad, I need a reliable reference. (this one only - I won't bother you with it again.)

RL
 
I have made them from 440C when they were going to be used in salt water.
I have made a couple from A2 for me and a friend. The A2 needs to be wiped off right away after use, but I haven't had any rust problems. Hardened to HRC 60, 1/16" A2 will still bend past 90 degrees without any damage.
 
Don, you ol'bow-kill'n turkey hunter. Hey - just a bit off the thread - I will be bow hunting deer and turkey this fall season.

ATS-34. Well, thanks to Kit I have determined that the corrosion question with ATS-34 has a lot more to do with the heat treat than the steel analysis. I like your suggestion of backing the blade grind to help keep it flat. That may be real good advise for me. I lean toward ATS-34 because I am comfortable with my HT of it. On the other hand I want to start working other steels too and because of that I think of things such as 440V and, what is it(?), s60v(?).

Don - you da man. Let's talk turkey come spring time.

RL
 
A2? Yeah, I'd love too to do a non-stainless tool steel but not on this one. This user is not a knife guy. He just knows if it works well or not. I can't depend on him properly caring for the edge in the Canadian bush. However, A2 is a steel I want to work with later.

RL
 
A tough flexible steel like 15N20 works well but of course rusts like the dickens. I think I would go with the 440C personally. I have one nearly finished that I heat treated myself in a forge (we'll see just how well that turned out!) and another profiled. These used 1/16" stock and I am now considering heat treating the profiled blade before I grind the bevels. Sending it off to be heat treated may be the better part of valor also. Blade number one warped horribly but I have been able to straighten it by hammering the blade lightly (with no visible damage from the hammering either!) I really should sharpen it to test it's edge retention.
 
Roger
440C is easy to do at home, and make a tough knife that will hold an edge. You don't edge quench, at least I don't. Basically treat it as you would O1, only you need to bring the color up a little more because it has a higher critical temp. Then quench in a light oil, I've been using (used) hydraulic fluid. The catch is you quench it 3 times in a row before any tempering. From there, I temper for 2 hours at 385 degrees, I think Ed said to do it at 400, but with the oven I'm using I like the results from 385. Then into the freezer overnight (closest thing I have to cryo) then 2 more times of 2 hours in the oven at 385.
I have one folder that had a bind in the pivot, and was junk. So I did a little durability testing. The blade is 3" long from 1/8" stock with a drastic distal taper and a long swedge. I was able to throw it into chunks of wood with little to no damage to the tip. Missed and hit the concrete floor once and that merely bent over about 1/16" of the tip. I then hammered it through a 3/8" X 1/4" peice of hard maple a few times (at right angles to the grain) using a big wood block on the spine (no real damage). Finally I tried a little flex testing, it will spring back from about 10-15 degrees flex, I think any farther would damage it, but its only a 3" blade.

The knives I've made with it dont hold an edge quite as well as one of ATS34, but they're tough, take a very fine edge and hold it for an acceptable length of time. Generally just takes a few swipes on a spyderco medium ceramic bench stone to bring them back too.


I guess since you have a kiln you could do the air hardening method with the ramp and soak times and everything. I can't give you any specifics on that though.
 
No, no. I do full quenches on stainless steel, Roger.

I'd be happy to be a reference for that knife. I just hope I can do it enough justice.
 
Forgot to add
Check Kovals for 440C. Thinnest they have it at TKS is 3/32" and its only in 6" plates.
I think Koval has it in regular barstock at 3/32" if not thinner. And maybe other suppliers too.
 
I am finishing up one right now with 440C.But most of mine are large, about 10" blades and I use 1/8" stock with a long distal taper.My customers like them this way more for the larger fish than the ultra thin fillet knives.Dave:)
 
Yeah, I'll do my own HT. I have to. I have a production fillet knife packed away in a ceder box somewhere. I remember liking its blade length for fish such as those mentioned. I'll drag it out and measure it. So far I guess I am leaning toward the 440 stuff for this one. I need an excuse to start working 440 anyhow.

RL
 
DC Knives, 1/8th may be what I should consider anyhow since I invision a 8 to 10 inch taper. Once again I probably got the cart ahead of the hourse. I should have drug that production knife out and took measurements before posting this thing. EXCEPT, I still want advise on making a fillet knife. I suppose I'll shoot for a 440 steel.

RL
 
Matt, thanks for the sourcing. knowing my overkill taste I may shop the Crucible 440 counterpart too.

If I can grind a fillet I should be able to grind a small bowie. I'll loose sleep over this one. Better order extra steel.
 
Roger,
Yea, what Sylvester said:)

Go with ATS34 since you are used to it and corrosion isn't that big of an issue now.

Get a good piece of hardwood or Micarta, inlay a couple of rare earth magnets in it and glue a piece of wood on the bottom to support the blade. Gives even long thin blades support.
 
Kit, you've been a good and generous instructor for me. Please don't be provoked if I take this oportunity to learn a new steel. I will take your advise about the grind. And, I may be crying to you later about what to do to fix my 440 HT :confused: ;).

Roger
 
Hope your not thinking of Crucibles 440V as a similar animal to the old tried and true 440C that everybody has. They're totally different (I'm sure you know this....but you mentioned crucible) I don't think that 440V offers as much flex as 440C. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it used for any kind of a blade over 4".....course that might be that it runs about $28/ft from the supply houses and only comes in 1/8" stock :eek:
 
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