Steel Analysis Complete, Now what is it?

A C Richards

A C Richards

Joined
Apr 14, 2006
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I had some steel tested at Fastenal. Both pieces came from a CAT. One a D8 and one a D9.

The samples came back a little bit different but I cannot find anything like it. I think it might be proprietary.

Sample #1, C 0.58, Si 0.327, Mn 0.94, P 0.013, S 0.033, Cr 0.83, Ni 0.108, Mo 0.043

Sample #2, C 0.56, Si 0.277, Mn 0.90, P 0.013, S 0.023, Cr 0.90, Ni 0.114, Mo 0.296

They both work great for tools, hammers, hot cuts etc. I made a Hatchet from one of them and it had a tendency to air harden. With the carbon levels I think it is a perfect candidate for hatchets and hammers.

BTW, it cost me $40 per sample sending in the 2 with shipping. I was told this is pretty standard cost. Not bad considering I have heard of $100 + for single samples. It was sent to their main office in Winona Mn.
 
Where did you get 3160 and 9860 ??

CAT is big enough to have any alloy they want .It's the only company I had dealing with that used regularly , Boron steels . Boron steels are now being used in autos BTW.
In the USA I know of no 31xx steel s nor 98xx steels ? Timken does make alloys to order in recent years for big customers .

See ." Practical Data for Metallurgists " www.Timken.com a good source of info for you knife makers.
 
I was told that it was proprietary, but the guy who told me was a welder and really was not that into what types of steel is available. It makes sense though as even the 2 suggested just don't quite fit. Have not found ay in the books I have or on line as of yet. 9860 is close but not enough Ni in my sample. I am just going to treat it like a higher carbon Cro Moly steel. Little higher on the temper.
 
That is a great resource. I just thumbed through it. The closest I could find is a modified 8660H.
 
Looks almost like L6. Maybe its a proprietary L6 mod or at least in that family of steels? The air hardening makes me think it may be just that.
 
Just curious, did these came from the replaceable wear pieces from the bottom of the dozer blade.

They do indeed have their own steel mix but I am not sure if it is a special mix for the wear plates.
 
Are you talking about growsers [teeth ] ? These are normally made of a special steel - Hadfield steel . That's a fascinating steel for sure

Timken at one point started a program where you tell them what properties you need .They tell you which steel is best even if it's a special steel ; to minimize the total cost , especially of the HT costs.
 
What I would do with that analysis is break it down to the main points.

Sample #1, C 0.58, Si 0.327, Mn 0.94, P 0.013, S 0.033, Cr 0.83, Ni 0.108, Mo 0.043

Sample #2, C 0.56, Si 0.277, Mn 0.90, P 0.013, S 0.023, Cr 0.90, Ni 0.114, Mo 0.296


.60% carbon makes it a XX60 steel
1% manganese is a deep hardening steel
1% chromium ( for added toughness) would make it a 51XX steel.

For practical HT purposes, I would consider this 5160M (modified with a small amount of Ni and Mo to add a tad more toughness) (5160 = 0.55-0.64 C; 0.75-1.00 Mn; 0.035 P max; 0.15-0.30 Si; 0.70-0.90 Cr ). The HT parameters for your steel should be identical to 5160. The main difference between this steel and many other similar steels is the low silicon. 5160 has 1.5-2.0% Si.
 
I am so very impressed with the wealth of knowledge some folks have on this forum and their willingness to share it.
Thank you to all.
 
Stacy, I agree it Looks like a modified 5160. This was my initial thought. However it does not act like 5160 at all. It has a tendency to air harden, probably the small amount of Mo. Also I tempered a hatchet at 550F which would be perfect for what I am looking for in 5160. However it is still on the hard side with this steel. I is very tough though. I cut up a bunch of black iron wire yesterday with no damage to the edge. I will try something a bit harder today. I think I need to ramp up the temper to 600 or 650. I would like to be able to use a file to sharpen the hatchet and not require a stone.
 
Chuck,

For future reference, to you have any idea what years the D8 and D9 were?
 
No idea years made. Picked these springs up in 1997. Both were off older machines so it is a guess at best. I did the analysis as the large spring weighed 300lbs and the smaller one was around 250. So I have 500lbs of material for $110 including the Spectro.

Update. I had done the last temper a couple weeks ago. I did a file test after the first at 550 (highest my oven will go) and it skated. So I put it back in and did not do another file test after the second temper. Well I pulled them out of the oven yesterday(yes the oven was off) and did a cutting test on the wire. This am after Stacy posted I decided to try another file test. Well it cuts. It is most likely 5160m as Stacy thought.

I also tried cutting a 16d nail. It did cut but the edge flattened. I expect it at this temper. Next time I will try 500f to see if i can get the balance I want.

What did I learn? Well it proved to me the second tempering makes a big difference. I always have done 2 but this cemented the process. Also sometimes it is the obvious answer we need to look at. I am glad I had the analysis done as now i know I have some quality steel. Still to be used as tools and axes but quality non the less.
 
Bo T said:
Chuck,

For future reference, to you have any idea what years the D8 and D9 were?
Click to expand...

Should also add, both springs were off the machines. 300lb at a scrap yard, the small one in a friends back yard. How long they had been there I have no clue.
 
As a beginner, this is a fascinating discussion and a PERFECT example of how to approach an unknown steel. So many of us beginners just grab a piece of steel that "someone" told us would make good knives and start hacking/hammering away at it and guess at the heat treat.

Chuck, however started with a "found" steel that, used as springs in heavy equipment, should have positive qualities for knives/tools and did some testing based on empirical knowledge.

Thanks for the education, gentlemen!

J-
 
Chuck, glad Fastenal gave you a fair deal- they quoted me a lot higher. Annoying! Perhaps if I need analysis in the future I'll send it to the same Fastenal office that you did.
Score on that 500 lbs. total of steel! Sounds like it should be good for swords...
 
Salem, I just took it to the local store and they called to find out what to do. I had almost forgotten about it and he called yesterday. I had told him if it was over $100 not to do it. So maybe they got the hint, we would not pay more for what we wanted. If you need the Address or contact I will gladly pass it on.

I picked that material up so darned long ago. I have made a few tools and such out of it. My hot cut for my huge hardy hole was made from a piece. I also made a couple hardy stakes out of it. All have held up great. I decided to try the hatchet from it and decided I needed to get it done. Your post just renewed my desire to finally do it. I did specifically ask if this was the "Standard" price and I was told yes. Hopefully it will hold up and we now have a reasonably priced source.
 
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