steel decision

R

razorsdescent

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Jan 16, 2005
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Getting a custom knife made for survival use/bail out bag

Choices are 440c 154cm and d2. ive owned knives in all of these steels but none has stuck out better than the other. based on things ive read i was leaning toward 440c over d2 due to corrosion resistance and ease of resharpening but 154cm is a bit of a mystery to me. right now i use a ontario TAK and its 1095 and its served me well so in all honesty im sure that corrosion resistance isnt that important if you wipe it off after use.

any recomendations would be greatly appreciated
 
154CM is similar to ATS-34 (not sure if you've used that). It's (imo) better then 440C. D2 is a tool steel with a high hardness (60-62 Rc. I believe) and high levels of edge retention. It is not a "stainless" steel, but it's close enough. 440C is a very stainless steel, with adequate edge retention and hardness.

Out of those 3 choices, I'd go with 154CM, or better yet, CPM154. It's very rust resistant, easy to sharpen, and holds a great edge.
 
Of those choices I would probably go with 440C. I want a steel that can be resharpened easily in the field. Even the best steels will dull eventually and they will need to be resharpened. I would much rather resharpen 440C in the field than D2. 440C has enough edge retention and corrosion resistance for most any application.
 
As mentioned in the O.P. plain carbon steel isn't a bad choice.
In fact, maybe many of this forum go for 1095 or cutting-purpose alloyed tools steel like O1.

BTW, maybe it much more depends on heat-treatment or construction of blade than type of steel.
 
fujita yuji said:
As mentioned in the O.P. plain carbon steel isn't a bad choice.
In fact, maybe many of this forum go for 1095 or cutting-purpose alloyed tools steel like O1.
Click to expand...

If you're going for a 1095 for a bail out bag, unless you're really geared towards a custom one, check out a nice RC-4/6.
 
I like D2 for toughness. Many have a difficult time resharpening but I haven't had problems with this. It's a very tough steel and very close to stainless. RC hardness is more a result of the heat treat than the steel itself so although it can be hardened quite high, it doesn't have to be.

440C is a good stainless and would serve you fine. Takes a nice polish and should be the easiest of these three to resharpen (all else being equal).

154CM and ATS34 are virtually the same steel. Just different manufacturers. It is a good, high quality stainless that will also serve you well. I would say, again with all else being equal, that this steel would fall between D2 and 440C for ease of sharpening.

Hope this helps.
SDS
 
In the hands of a custom maker, 440C will shine. Most of the bad rap 440 gets is due to 440b being passed off as something better, or poor/inconsistent/improper heat treatments.

No real arguments with the other two, though. I'm personally itching to try some 440 in a thin convex grind.
 
well i already have an 1095 knife which i use as a beater and woods knife. but im a collector as well as a user so im def gonna get an rc-5 sere when they become available.

the model in question is a cook explorer like the one in the latest isue of tactical knives. i saw its profile and simplicity and knew it was gonna end up being a future purchase the only decision is the steel.

keep em comin and thanks to those who have already answered.
 
One of the sharpest knives I have is made from D2. Edge is awesome. D2 has big tough carbides. Tough steel. I've heard there can be some problems with it chipping, but that's probably more of a heat issue.

154CM is a well proven steel and would probably be my choice of the 3 you mentioned.

I gotta respect what Koyote says, but I'd steer clear of 440 anything unless it was from a maker I really trusted. And even then I'd go for the 154CM. Why not? It's a great steel.
 
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601423

That is a thread where I showed how tough a D2 blade can be by abusing it on a cinder block. Of course I don't recommend that type of abuse but I wanted to see how well it would hold up to getting beat up. It's not a high tech steel but it sure works well for the things I've used it for.

SDS
 
I love 154 and to me it's head and shoulders over the other ones you mentioned. However for what you are using it for, I would stay with 1095. I have to admit though, I have never had a Thin D2. However I love the Knives of Alaske which use their own version of D2.
 
154CM is virtually the same as ATS34 and is a good steel, a step above 440C, but I'd still rather opt for a good old fashioned high carbon such as 1095 o O1 !!!
 
154CM is like 440C with added Mo therefore a better steel. There are better versions of D2 and 154CM - CPM D2 and CPM154. CPM154 is a favorite of mine and custom makers use it for almost every type of knife with great success !!
 
I'd take the 154CM over the 440C and leave the D2 out of it, supposing the maker is as proficient with them all and we're talking about holding the design constant.

I think D2 is great, and it does seem to be going thorough a bit of a renaissance
at the moment, but it is imperative to take it to a very fine finish to get the best from it. Whilst that is extremely desirable with the other two with D2 there's a significant difference. Whilst that's hardly a hardship for a competent person working in their nest it might not be the best choice for what you conceive of as a survival / BOB knife.

440C is a steel I love. Koyote has already touched on why there are so many misconceptions about that steel, and why so many minds rush to the crimes against knives end. I regard it as the workhorse steel. Easy to maintain and works well. I have no qualms at all about that steel for the role you have in mind.

That said, if an identical knife of comparable quality was available in 154CM I'd take that. Although I don't have any 154CM I do have some in ATS34 and it is lovely. If you can justify paying the extra over 440C, bearing in mind the diminishing returns thing, then buy with confidence.

As to speculations about these being rank ordered in terms of how hard they are to sharpen at home, well I have no use for that. Armed with skill, a diamond stone, and some wet n dry it makes as much sense to meaningfully rank order a snail, a frog, and a slug for hardness when you run over them in your car.
 
Baldtaco, Dozier doesn't exactly give his knives a "fine finish" yet he is kind of the standard by which others rate D2. Granted, he has spent a lot of time working that particular steel to bring out the best but don't discount D2.

Sharpening does come into play for a lot of people. Either they aren't as proficient as they'd like or haven't been taught properly. I think that some steels are worth the extra effort but a lot of folks don't. That is partly why the high carbon steels (1095,O1, 5160) are so popular. They hold up well to use and are easy to sharpen.

SDS
 
I'd really like to see a comparison of some of the more commonly available steels with convex edges, for ease of sharpening and edge retention. 15N20 is getting hard to find, especially in "thick" stock like .095 and .120.
 
I don't really understand the whole thing with need for corrosion resistance and added to a bug-out-bag. Are you going to keep your bug out bag hanging in the cabin of a salt water boat? If not, then I wouldn't worry about rust. Many others have stated in similar posts. When going for a particular knife from a custom maker, go with the steel the maker is most comfortable with and has the most experience with.
 
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