Steel flatness and bevels

Just ordered some from Jantz and you can get precision ground but it cost more. I just buy the cheapest and grind it flat. Regardless of where I purchase steel from or what shape it's in when I get it, I still put it on my flat platen and make sure it's flat. Not a big deal. The OP was asking how to fix his problem and, without a surface grinder, just put it on the platen.
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Precision Ground: Best available finish achieved by surface grinding both sides. Tolerance ±.001"
.100" Thickness 1/8" (.125") Thickness


Thickness - .100"

Thickness - .125"


5/32" (.156") Thickness 3/16" (.187") Thickness


Thickness - .156"

Thickness - .187"
 
Rookie25 said:
I just buy the cheapest and grind it flat.
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Let me ask this...If you buy a piece of steel and it has a gentle bend or arc, and you slap it in the surface grinder on the magnetic chuck, grind it completely flat to +or- 0.001, will it still be bent when you take it out of the chuck, On the other side of the coin, if you grind a piece of steel flat with your platen, will you still have a thickness or flat tolerance of +or- 0.001

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.... if you don't get a good piece of steel
 
Let me clarify. If it's bent, I straighten it. I haven't had any cupped but all my stainless is rounded a little on the edge from the shear. I just flatten it on the platen. The 1095 I've gotten from Aldo is shinny and seems to be cut, instead of sheared. I'm just saying I'm not paying extra for precision ground when I'm going to grind it anyway.
 
Rookie25 said:
I'm just saying I'm not paying extra for precision ground when I'm going to grind it anyway.
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I think precision ground is more for the folder guys, cold rolled annealed is plenty good for fixed blades, I think Aldo bought a big band saw just to get away from the rolled edge of the plate shear
 
Wow, a lot of varying opinions. At this point I have no idea what the suppliers tolerances are but I will be checking this before ever buying another piece of steel...

Here's an example of what the majority of the steel looks like. I ran this one on few passes across the platen to help show the high/low spots...

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The cup is plainly visible without a straight edge while looking down the length of the bar--I'll try to get a decent picture of it this evening. I did manage to grind this piece down flat and took off roughly .010 until the cup was gone. I know my grind technique is far from perfect but I'm assuming cupped steel like this will cause evenness problems while grinding the bevels (unless I grind it flat, of course...) ?
 
Ya that's retarded, not only would I return that steel I would attach it to a Cruise Missile to do so ;0)
 
That steel is likely sheared. Fine for damascus or forging, but a bit too much work for stock removal. I'd use it no problem, but I forge everything...
 
Don Hanson III said:
I sure would not call this steel junk, or retarded. It's forging stock. Is what it is... :cool:
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And on that note, maybe it should come with a warning label ;0)

"CAUTION THIS STEEL IS INTENDED FOR PROFESSIONAL FORGING USE ONLY, AMATEUR STOCK REMOVAL IS NOT RECOMMENDED"
 
Don Hanson III said:
That steel is likely sheared. Fine for damascus or forging, but a bit too much work for stock removal.
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Now I'm even more confused... Why then does Kellys 1080 come so highly recommended on this forum as a beginners stock removal steel?? :confused:

Could I expect Aldo's 1084 to be more straight/flat?
 
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JBC69 said:
Now I'm even more confused... Why then does Kellys 1080 come so highly recommended on this forum as a beginners stock removal steel?? :confused:
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Fun and games aside and In all fairness, it is most likely a fluke, and he may very well still send you a new piece if you contact him and tell him what the steel looks like
 
John Katt said:
Fun and games aside and In all fairness, it is most likely a fluke, and he may very well still send you a new piece if you contact him and tell him what the steel looks like
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I'm going to take a few more pictures when I get a little time this weekend and send him a note to get his opinion... Some of what I got is straight as an arrow and without any cup--however, I'm betting at least half of the supply I bought has a cup and/or is not perfectly flat through it's length.

I hope this thread isn't taken as a knock against him or his product because he has been a complete above and beyond, stand up guy. I'm still learning how to use this new grinder and just trying to get to the bottom of the reason(s) why I can't seem to produce an acceptably straight blade.
 
JBC69 said:
I hope this thread isn't taken as a knock against him or his product because he has been a complete above and beyond, stand up guy
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Probably not a big deal, however getting tossed under the bus from time to time will keep you on your toes
 
Uh oh, I just got 28ft of 1080 from him today. Hopefully mine isn't dished out. I'll check and report back tomorrow.

I will say, Kelly seemed like a real good guy and was easy to deal with.
 
JBC69 said:
Now I'm even more confused... Why then does Kellys 1080 come so highly recommended on this forum as a beginners stock removal steel?? :confused:

Could I expect Aldo's 1084 to be more straight/flat?
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Some of the early 1084 I got from Aldo needed a fair bit of grinding even before being used in damascus. I don't know what his recent stock is like? It's all a learning process, hot rolled, or sheared is not guarantied to be flat or straight, we learn to deal with it, or we find a different product...
 
John Katt said:
Let me ask this...If you buy a piece of steel and it has a gentle bend or arc, and you slap it in the surface grinder on the magnetic chuck, grind it completely flat to +or- 0.001, will it still be bent when you take it out of the chuck, On the other side of the coin, if you grind a piece of steel flat with your platen, will you still have a thickness or flat tolerance of +or- 0.001

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.... if you don't get a good piece of steel
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John,
If ya really need a answer to that I can tell ya what I do and it does get it +or -0.001. I will say if anyone can achieve that with a platen alone I would have to see it to believe it.
I've been buying steel since 1998 and have never been fortunate enough to get some as flat as you all seem to be talking. From Kelly to Aldo to Admiral but I dont think any of it was so bad a maker will have a hard time getting by it once he has made a few knives. It's all just part of the learning process.

Cliff
 
Cliff Parker said:
John,
If ya really need a answer to that I can tell ya what I do and it does get it +or -0.001. I will say if anyone can achieve that with a platen alone I would have to see it to believe it.
I've been buying steel since 1998 and have never been fortunate enough to get some as flat as you all seem to be talking. From Kelly to Aldo to Admiral but I dont think any of it was so bad a maker will have a hard time getting by it once he has made a few knives. It's all just part of the learning process.

Cliff
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No answer needed, it was more of a rhetorical question intended to provoke thought, and to point out that bent, cupped, flat, and parallel are four completely different things

Also the 0.001" is kind of a mythical number, some of the best surface plates you can get are only guaranteed to 0.003, which interestingly enough I just scored a $90 15"x18" cast iron surface plate from eBay 3 weeks ago with 23 dollars shipping, turns out there is an 2nd hand industrial reseller just 55 miles from my house, compared to the 5"x10"x1" piece of machined steel that I have been using, its like an airport landing strip

So at the end of the day, if you are going to sell hot rolled steel cut with a worn out plate shear at top dollar, the item description or price should reflect that
 
I'd be willing to bet money the vast majority of 1080 Kelly sells is goin into damascus.

Point is, hot rolled will usually need to be ground flat for stock removal. Some bars will be flatter than others, but it's not known as flat stock steel...
 
Don Hanson III said:
I'd be willing to bet money the vast majority of 1080 Kelly sells is goin into damascus.

Point is, hot rolled will usually need to be ground flat for stock removal. Some bars will be flatter than others, but it's not known as flat stock steel...
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Can't be better said than that. As someone would say without mentioning names. End of story.

Cliff
 
Don Hanson III said:
Some of the early 1084 I got from Aldo needed a fair bit of grinding even before being used in damascus. I don't know what his recent stock is like? It's all a learning process, hot rolled, or sheared is not guarantied to be flat or straight, we learn to deal with it, or we find a different product...
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I received some 1084 and some 1095 from Aldo a month or so ago. Both have a very good surface. I still don't have a real grinder yet besides the 1 x 30 and the house needs a new roof, etc., so I was really pleased with the surface cause I'll be doing a lot of hand work. The 1 1/4" bars seem to have been cut on a band saw. The only rolled edges I've seen are on the ends of the bars. The 15" wide plate of 1095 is the same as the bars of 1084 with rolled edges only on the ends of the plate.
 
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