Steel for hunting knife

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

Joined
Dec 20, 2005
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If you had to choose only one type of steel for a hunting knife (eg. Loveless style drop point hunter) -what would it be?

ie. What is the best "all rounder" in terms of consistency in heat treat, repeatable performance, stain resistance, edge retention, toughness, etc? O1, D2, CPM 154, S30V, 52100?

I'm personally leaning towards D2, I starting working with this in January and the edge I can get on this steel is sharper than O1, and it really does hold it. I hated D2 when I tried it in "production" knives -they just wouldn't hold a decent edge (they would literally hold a crappy edge for a long time).

On another note, I honestly haven't been impressed by S30V. My Buck Mayo TNT is easily outcut by my "shop" knife made from D2.

So what are your opinions? All steels have pros and cons, but I'll put a vote in for D2.
 
From the list you gave, it would be 01. That would be my second pick however if you had listed the King Of steel.

You also didn't list any of the xx.

D's biggest drawback after the knife is made, is sharpening in the field. Sure it holds an edge well but can be a nightmare to resharpen if you get it beyond needing a touch up.

As far as drawbacks, the King really doesn't have any.
 
Personally I would choose D2 or A2 with A2 being my first choice. If you want stain resistance then I would pick 154CM.
Scott
 
The third requirement on your list was 'stain resistance'. For the most part, that eliminates O1, 52100 and even D2. A "non-stainless" blade only goes to a very special customer, who will treat the blade like his rifle at the end of every day of the hunt - and who understands the difference betweens tarnish and rust.

If you were going to go with one of those, maybe add CPM3V to the list for good edge retention and incredible toughness in case you ever have to bet your life on it.

Of the others, (and overall) I'd choose the CPM 154CM. Good corrosion resistance - double the toughness of standard 154CM - easy to sharpen if you don't leave rockwell in the silly zone - and takes a very nice finish to boot.

... but thank God we don't have to choose just one. :D

Rob!
 
peter nap said:
That would be my second pick however if you had listed the King Of steel.
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OK - I'll bite. Which steel really doensn't have any drawbacks?? :confused:

Rob!
 
this may be my inexperince and ingornace showing but is 5160 really that good ?? if so i better get moving on the 2 pieces i have collecting dust in my garage.
 
I am increasingly avoiding hypo-eutectoids like 5160, in favor of steels like 1095, 52100, and O1. With most of my test blades, I've tried hammering the edge into mild steel, and the only knife that didn't deform or chip was 1095. 5160 wrinkled then broke. People like the toughness of 5160, but strength counts for something too. Besides, hyper-eutectoids are more wear resistant.
But that's just what I do. Use whatever you want.
I've never used D2. Every time I considered it, I just couldn't get past the price tag. Ebay always has lot's of A2. I might get some of that and give it a try...
 
I certainly haven't tried all the steels out there (especially the stainless steels) but, I've use several. I mainly stick with the 1084/1095s and 5160. I've also heard wonderful things about 52100 but, haven't personally gotten the HT to the performance level I think it should be at yet. Maybe if I break down and get an oven someday that'll change.

For 5160, after annealing, I heat my oil to 155-165 degrees and edge quench three times, temper three times at 350 degrees (on both, waiting for the blades to cool to room temp. between actions), then I throw the blades in the kitchen freezer overnight. I've done just about everything you can to one of these blades from rope cutting, driving them through 1" square 1018HC to cutting cinder blocks. The last one I did passed the standard ABS-JS test, then, after the 90 degree flex, flexed 180 degrees 13 times before breaking. The whole time the edge stayed sharp enough to cut and the broken pieces still cut.

Granted this works for me, everyone has their own thing but, I'm a big 5160 fan and I'm even using more and more of it in my damascus these days.

Just my thoughts, take them as you will.
 
peter nap said:
Why....5160 or course...
Click to expand...

You guys probably have yard full of old trucks and you're just too cheap to have them hauled away. Today, "Old Truck Spring" blades - tomorrow, non-slip rad hose handles with matching fuel line lanyard. :rolleyes:

Rob!
 
I'm definitely not saying that 5160 can't make a good knife, just that I haven't had much success with it. J., maybe yours has more carbon in it than mine. :D
 
Oh, I understand Phillip. I'm just tossing out what I've experienced. There are still other steels I want to try out as well.

Just for reference, I get my 5160 flat stock from Kelly Cupples and my round stock from Dan Grey. Two really good guys.
 
I'm really starting to like O1. www.use-enco.com has the best prices I've found, plus the brand they carry is Starrett, which has some vanadium in it.
I just ordered some D2 from Sheffield, so soon I'll finally get say I've used it. :)
 
J. Neilson said:
For 5160, after annealing, I heat my oil to 155-165 degrees and edge quench three times, temper three times at 350 degrees (on both, waiting for the blades to cool to room temp. between actions), then I throw the blades in the kitchen freezer overnight. I've done just about everything you can to one of these blades from rope cutting, driving them through 1" square 1018HC to cutting cinder blocks. The last one I did passed the standard ABS-JS test, then, after the 90 degree flex, flexed 180 degrees 13 times before breaking. The whole time the edge stayed sharp enough to cut and the broken pieces still cut.
Click to expand...
You may get a little better result if you put it in the freezer before tempering.
 
Yes, just like everyone else, I started on old car springs but then I started using quality, NEW 5160. What a surprise. It changed a steel from one I loved to one that stood out from all the others.

That doesn't mean 10xxx is no good or 01. Both are very good. I like 10 series fro swords better and 01 has a better edge holding quality but overall....everything considered...5160 is king in my opinion.
 
J. Neilson said:
I may have to try that Larrin, any particular reason?
Click to expand...
You get the greatest reduction of retained austenite directly after quenching (though you can of course straighten the blade and let it cool to hand warm first). Also, though the freezer isn't quite cryogenic, if you are reducing retained austenite with the freezer, you definitely need a temper after you get fresh martensite. The whole point of a multiple temper is that because you are converting austenite to fresh martensite with tempering, you need to temper again to temper that martensite. If you are indeed converting more austenite with your freezer, your freezer treatment after tempering could actually be counter-productive; however, with simple carbon steels the amount of retained austenite should be fairly low.

Though a freezer is a little better than no freeze at all when it comes to converting more austenite to martensite, the best treatment is with dry ice plus acetone, or with liquid nitrogen. Liquid nitrogen can be a little more difficult to get and you have to get the special container to hold it, but dry ice and acetone are fairly easy to purchase.

By the way, the whole point of reducing retained austenite is to get martensite, and that's simply to increase hardness. The austenite is soft (dead soft), and the martensite is what's hard, so you generally see a fairly small increase in hardness, which increases wear resistance for edge retention. As a side note, some heat treaters/metallurgists like a little retained austenite for extra toughness, but others contend that it actually reduces toughness, etc., blah blah. But in the reverse, if you have retained austenite, there is a small possibility that it might convert later from chopping or other things, and like I said before, fresh martensite is bad.

What it all comes down to is people are impressed by greater edge retention, and also impressed by the phrase "cyrogenically treated." You probably won't see a reduction in toughness by reducing the amount of retained austenite.

I hope this wasn't too oversimplified or too complicated. You should definitely read Verhoeven's book, available for free on the internet, it's loaded with way too much information to handle: http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/7-5.pdf Read it many, many times. I'm still reading it and I've been through it probably more than ten times. I guess my reading comprehension is poor. :)
 
Wow, my head hurts now. :D

That was a great explanation Larrin. I actually started throwing knives in the freezer overnight because after talking to alot of old-time black/bladesmiths, they claimed that the blades they forged in the winter months (outdoor forges) always held a better edge. I am a very nontechnical guy but, whatever works is good for me.
 
I'm speechless! I can't believe what I'm reading! The kitchen freezer isn't cold enough to do a damed thing!!! Com'on guys! STUDY YOUR CRAFT. By the way, Kraft is king. mabe you've at least seen a TV commercial. Metallurgy, and what steels can and cannot seems a little out there for some. Flat grinder. Your question, which is ask hundreds of times a year by countless people. At shows, on the phone, on the forums has no answer. Anyone who gives a very firm answer to it is a lier. What is the best religion? Which sect of the the same religion. Best woman, Red head, Blond? Tall, short, thin, heavy, and what about which car, truck, brand of jeans, watch. Man, your asking a lot. 5160 the King? of what. I have steels here that i can drive thru 5160. And to say that your choice of D-2 sucks because it's too hard to sharpen in the field is ludicrous. A fine Diamond hone does a superb and quick job. Its just that many, as you have just read haven't made it out of the Th century yet. And probably never will. Flat, they say ignorance is bliss. and this is one happy bunch of campers around here sometimes! Now go work that D-2. Mike
 
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