Steel Gens and their ease of sharpening

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Krissig12

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Sep 11, 2013
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Ok, so recently I've started hearing that steels are actually easier to sharpen if they are higher gen and therefore finer grain. For instance elmax is 3rd gen, so it's easier than s30v which I believe is first gen.

My question is: what are steels like s90v and s110v , since they are so hard to sharpen? Are they lower gen steels or with those does it come down to the sheer volume of vanadium in the steels (extreme wear resistance)? A combo of both features maybe?

My conclusion so far:

If I understand correctly, without the PM process to factor in, the higher the abrasion resistance of the steel, and the harder its run at, the harder it is to sharpen. Then when you factor in the PM process, you still have those two factors, but the steel becomes easier to sharpen because of the finer grain. So it would make sense that a steel with more wear resistance but the same 3rd gen process as a less wear resistant steel, would be relatively harder to sharpen. Am I right?
 
Krissig12 said:
the higher the abrasion resistance of the steel, and the harder its run at, the harder it is to sharpen.
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Umm...maybe I'm out of the loop but I don't know what a "gen" is. I've never heard steel being described in that way. To your question; I believe the quoted statement is correct. I don't think the PM process effects how easy it is to sharpen a blade. I think the PM process has more to do with how fine an edge you can get and how stable that edge is. But what do I know, I'm happy as can be with my SAK. Talk about easy to sharpen. :D
 
1st "gen" would be made of stone.:D I don't think you can categorize them that way. Think of it more as a candy store, with certain brands coming out with new and different flavors.

From what I have seen and heard, Elmax is on par with S30V. S90V and S110V are harder steels that hold their edge longer but are tougher to sharpen. They are an improvement on S30V in some aspects but they are not necessarily better unless you don't want to maintain your knife as often. S35VN was meant to be a truly better version of S30V that is both easier to sharpen and has better edge retention.

Ankerson has a ton of comparison charts in various threads if you look around.
 
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What's a gen? Never heard of it, and I've been on this website a minute or two....
 
I just want to know what else is in the "first gen". Does that include everything before S30V? Have we only started making improvements after that steel? I thought VG-10 and 440C were super steels in their own time. I still love VG-10 and haven't yet found a better balance in a steel.
 
Haven't there been more than 3 generations of even those? (Powder steels) as far as knife steels go, I'd guess there have been hundreds of "generations". There are a whole lot of steel designations out there, and more being added all the time, here lately especially.
 
Whoops, nope - apparently there ARE only 3 generations of powder steels. My google-fu needed training for the day anyway:

1st generation - CPM
2nd generation - Carpenter powder steels
3rd generation - Bohler powder steels
 
AntDog said:
Whoops, nope - apparently there ARE only 3 generations of powder steels. My google-fu needed training for the day anyway:

1st generation - CPM
2nd generation - Carpenter powder steels
3rd generation - Bohler powder steels
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4th generation- Powdered sugar steels.
 
I think theres 3 but I could be wrong. I saw in another thread before where I think someone said crucible uses gen 1, Carpenter uses 2 and bohler uses 3. There are many other factors in ease of sharpening and wear resistance like the different alloys in the steel, carbide levels, and steel hardness.
 
5th generation - PDM. Powdered Donut Metallurgy. They managed to take the powdered sugar process from the previous gen and apply it to a donut, then create a blade from the donut. It is truly the pinnacle of innovation.
 
Now I have to worry about gens??

I'll take two whole-wheat PDM's and a cup of coffee.
 
RemyKaze said:
5th generation - PDM. Powdered Donut Metallurgy. They managed to take the powdered sugar process from the previous gen and apply it to a donut, then create a blade from the donut. It is truly the pinnacle of innovation.
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(In my best Homer Simpson voice): Mmmmmm powdered donut knife! Agggghhhh! Drooool....
 
Thanks guys! Huge help:D

On the serious side, thanks to whoever described which companies use the different gens. I figured it was more like advancements in technology in that each time a better gen came out, everyone started using that to make their steels with....
 
There are different generations of the actual process to make the steel. Each company can or does use any of the "gens" to make a certain steel. Not sure what company uses what or if Böhler is just describing their process update and their "gen 3" steel is a patented process or marketing.

"BÖHLER continues to lead the way in innovation and is the only manufacturer providing 3rd generation Powder Metallurgy. 3rd generation P/M offers a finer carbide distribution than 2nd generation P/M. Our 3rd generation MICROCLEAN® Powder Metal is far superior to any other powder metal on the market today."

Source: http://www.busmi.com/b_4880.htm
 
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ev13wt said:
There are different generations of the actual process to make the steel. Each company can or does use any of the "gens" to make a certain steel.
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So can s30v be made with different gens, or does each steel only have one gen that it can be produced by? That way the company could use all of the gens, but for different steels?
 
Ok, I think I got it. The gen is related to the steel, not the company. It just so happens that m390 is a third gen steel and bohler makes it. It's equivalent 204p, for example, is a second gen steel which happens to be made by carpenter
 
Krissig12 said:
So can s30v be made with different gens, or does each steel only have one gen that it can be produced by? That way the company could use all of the gens, but for different steels?
Click to expand...

I edited while you where responding, sorry bout that. See above.
 
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