Steel matters?

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I've been kind of a steel snob in the past, and even now I prefer tool steels over stainless. However, I've come to the point that the steel type really doesn't matter to me anymore. When my knife gets dull I sharpen it. How well my knife cuts and blade/edge grind is more important to me than steel type. I tend to reprofile the edges on all my knives and I seem to touchup the edge way before its dull. I'd probably be able to get away with useing the worst heat treated crap steel and still have a sharp knife. :) So whats my point? I'm not really sure. I think we may just get wrapped up in the steel type way too much.
 
You are so right. I think we all get alot carried away with the steel hype. I used to collect high end knives, custom too. As time went by I was less and less impressed with them and started moving back to carbon steel that I started out with in the 1950's. I was not impressed when a high end custom made from the then hot lick stainless super steel did not cut as well as an old Buck stockman circa 1973.

One by one I took my high end snob knives and cut cardboard, hemp, in tests against each other and some old carbon stuff. The fancy stainless lost out. Sometimes by very little, but sometimes by a surprising amount. And sometimes lost out to some pretty humble knives. I sold off the lot of the snob stuff.

Given good heat treat, profile, and edge, it's pretty hard to beat a plain 1095 carbon blade.

Heck, an Opinel or a Douk-Douk will cut pretty much what you want to cut. just does not have that "hey, I'm special!" appeal. It's all in what you're after I guess. These days I just want honest working knives that I can cut something with.
 
jackknife said:
I was not impressed when a high end custom made from the then hot lick stainless super steel did not cut as well as an old Buck stockman circa 1973.

One by one I took my high end snob knives and cut cardboard, hemp, in tests against each other and some old carbon stuff. The fancy stainless lost out. Sometimes by very little, but sometimes by a surprising amount. And sometimes lost out to some pretty humble knives. I sold off the lot of the snob stuff.
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Was the blade geometry the same in the knives you were comparing? Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges.
 
Ryan8 said:
Was the blade geometry the same in the knives you were comparing? Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges.
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Yeah I thought about that. I tried to make it as close as possable, all the blade lenghs the same or very close, stock about 1/8 at the spine, blade width similar.

If there were just a little difference it would be one thing, but some of the high end super knives compared very poorly with some pretty mundane knives.

It was apples to apples.
 
jackknife said:
The fancy stainless lost out. Sometimes by very little, but sometimes by a surprising amount.
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This is mainly a heat treat issue, not many people are pushing the stainless steels to their limit cutting wise. Have Phil Wilson reharden a few and check the difference.

Given good heat treat, profile, and edge, it's pretty hard to beat a plain 1095 carbon blade.
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M2 will do it readily. Alvin Johnson had 1095 and M2 blades compared on a variety of materials both wet and dry, M2 will outperform it across the board, significantly on abrasive media (carpet) and as well on butchering due to corrosion differences. It also should work better in very fast extended cutting on cardboard which I keep meaning to look at.

-Cliff
 
db said:
I've been kind of a steel snob in the past, and even now I prefer tool steels over stainless. However, I've come to the point that the steel type really doesn't matter to me anymore. When my knife gets dull I sharpen it. How well my knife cuts and blade/edge grind is more important to me than steel type. I tend to reprofile the edges on all my knives and I seem to touchup the edge way before its dull. I'd probably be able to get away with useing the worst heat treated crap steel and still have a sharp knife. :) So whats my point? I'm not really sure. I think we may just get wrapped up in the steel type way too much.
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Amen brother! Half the knife steels came from aviation industry where they were used to make gas turbine blades spinning at 80,000 rpm's. If the steel can hold up to these stresses by blades should be a cakewalk for it.

Again, this is only one variable in making a knife. The handle shape and design, the blade design and grind, the heat treatment are probably as important if not more that what kind of steel it is made of, IMHO.

I can see it is important for the makers of knives who need to spend time grinding and assembling but not as critical for the user.

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html
 
I think the knife's intended usage needs considered when determining materials. I would agree that carbon steel is adequate for 75% of knife usage. There are however other circumstances where corrosion resistance and extended use would be a primary concern. Saltwater will tear up carbon steel.
 
For the most part, 1095 is just fine for my purposes, but that doesn't mean I don't want to sample everything else... :)
 
Can you really tell the difference between steels without side by side testing of them??? I'd bet not unless it rusts on you. I don't really do any testing I just carry and enjoy my knives and when they seem to become less sharp, not dull, I sharpen/touchup them. I'd agree that handle and comfort being used is way more important than steel type. Dare I say it may even be more important than the heat treatment? .
 
At a point (no pun intended), steel doesn't matter nearly as much as the knife itself, especially blade geometry. S30V doesn't outperform 420J if it's shaped like a brick and takes 3 weeks to sharpen. An old AUS-8 Calypso Jr will outslice an S30V Strider GB any day of the week because of the grind.

But a VG-10 or ZDP-189 Calypso Jr will outlast an AUS-8 one.

However, the latest and greatest isn't necessarily necessary (er, yeah). Just because your knife is made from last year's super steel, that doesn't make it a worthless piece of junk. At this level of quality, it becomes more of a "want" than a "need". I can tell the difference between 154CM and M2 on a Benchmade. Or S30V vs 20C-V on my Microtechs. The bite of VG-10 vs the toothy edge of coarse grained D2. But really, it doesn't make much of a difference at this level. No question, they all work better than AUS-8 and I'm not likely to be satisfied with the performance of AUS-8. But at the premium level, it's like arguing between Buegatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Maserati as though 10 additional BHP and 5 more MPH makes the slighest bit of difference in The Real World.

OTOH, if you can swing the cash, why not? :D I'm picking up a ZDP-189 Calypso Jr, and I don't even use my VG-10 one.
 
Planterz said:
... steel doesn't matter nearly as much as the knife itself, especially blade geometry.
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The ability of the steel defines the limits of blade geometry. You can get better cutting performance from high end steels. They also should have a wider scope of work, better edge retention, and be easier (not harder) to sharpen.

-Cliff
 
Knife steel would matter less to me if you get get a folder, with a lock, that's easy to open and close via thumbstud or hole, and has a pocket clip. But as mentioned in another thread, you won't find carbon steel in that style of knife.
Also the knife needs to be intelligently designed with good F&F.

The reverse of course is that I don't want to carry a knife that's heavy, hard to open and doesn't have a pocket clip, poorly designed with a crappy F&F. Exactly the kinds of knives that have carbon steel.
 
DaveH said:
Knife steel would matter less to me if you get get a folder, with a lock, that's easy to open and close via thumbstud or hole, and has a pocket clip. But as mentioned in another thread, you won't find carbon steel in that style of knife.
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One notable exception comes to mind: Benchmade 710HS in M2.
 
Yes, there are a few Benchmade has D2 and M2, Camillus EDC comes in d2, Cold steel has 1 hand pocket clip folders, Kbar, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more .
 
I don't think it's possible to buy a folder in 1095. You would have to get one custom made. I might be wrong, though.

I agree edge retention isn't much of an issue. My 154CM knife can cut boxes all day long w/o having to resharpen. It ranks pretty average amongst steels.
 
I've almost come to the same point as the OP.

Sometimes I'm just glad that a steel type is soft enough to be sharpened easily, it cuts about two or three hours of the re-profiling time going from ZDP-189 to 154CM or VG-10.
On the other hand, my ZDP Caly 3 only has to be sharpened a few times a year, and it stays razor sharp the whole time (it only gets used for little stuff). I really wouldn't pick any other steel for that knife, especially since I thinned the edge to .005" thick.

Sometimes I wonder what it would feel like to travel through time, now I know.
 
cotdt said:
I don't think it's possible to buy a folder in 1095. You would have to get one custom made. I might be wrong, though.

I agree edge retention isn't much of an issue. My 154CM knife can cut boxes all day long w/o having to resharpen. It ranks pretty average amongst steels.
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any reason to post to a 4 year old thread?

better than 7yrs i suppose..............
 
I touch up my knives after every use,more than I need to.So,the steel issue with me really is not an issue.
 
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