Steel, Micarta, and G10 dust and serious health concerns

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Sep 10, 2010
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Hey guys,

I want to start by saying I've been a full time maker for a year now but I am very close to quitting due to health concerns.

I'd like to have a serious discussion about safety and long term exposure to the dusts produced in knifemaking. We all wear our respirators, use dust collection, clean up etc.. but for me I am beginning to realized that I am being exposed to a huge amount of toxic dust every day no matter how many safety precautions are taken.

We get the dust on our skin, our work clothes, our hair and then we take that dust home with us and end up breathing in small amounts of it. Another big area of concern for me is absorption of toxins through the skin. Even with long sleeves and gloves I find my arms and hands blackened with micarta and steel dust every day. I'm sure that i am not alone in this.

The amount of toxic dust I am being exposed to is really scaring me and I am terrified of developing a neurological disorder or cancer years down the road because I was exposed to toxic dust during my knife making years.

Knife making has been my life and identity for the past year and I am more or less just getting started in my career but I shutter when I think about all the toxic dust and fumes I have been exposed to in just one year and all the manganese, vanadium, chromium, and tungsten that has absorbed through my skin while I was grinding.

I'm really beginning to think that the health hazards are just not worth it.
 
I believe from what you said it certainly is the time for you to give it up. Looking forward to your death is no way to have a life. I hope the past will not affect your future health. Frank
 
A lot of knifemakers have lived long full lives, BUT the old-timers used more wood than synthetic materials so that may make a difference?
 
Dusts from natural materials aren't too bad. G10 is nasty though, as are the bonding materials in abrasives like belts or cutting wheels, and probably micarta and stabilized wood.
 
Grease said:
Dusts from natural materials aren't too bad. G10 is nasty though, as are the bonding materials in abrasives like belts or cutting wheels, and probably micarta and stabilized wood.
Click to expand...

I am just starting, have not made a knife yet, and am setting up as much dust colle tion as possible.
First, i decided i should invest in a decent particulate counter cor the air, so I can test the efficiency of any system I try.
Next, i am only a hobbyist, and realize that making knives daily is not good for the lungs or skin.
So, I enjoy a hobby which is not everyday, does not have to be given up, for moderation is the key for my own practice.
I also wear all disposeable clothing, boots , hair cover, nitrile gloves( when not by running machine), and a p-100 3m full or part face respirator with a fit test kit.
This is my beginning approach, and still have lots of research to do.
A very wise man said to take a shower before entering the home and of coarse dumping all the clothes.
Jon
 
With care and good shop practices, you have little to fear in knifemaking.

Simple practices can greatly protect you from any potential harm:
As you are already doing, clean everything in the shop regularly.
Wear a respirator when grinding, and have a room air filter going to clean the air you breathe when not grinding.
Wear rubber gloves when using resins and chemicals.
Wash hands and arms often, and shower at the end of the days work.
Blow your nose.
When picking materials, use the safer choices.


Now, it is easy to panic over words in alloys and product lists. The word cyanide is scary, but cyano-acrylic is not. While many metals are toxic to some degree, that is not necessarily true if they are alloyed or in minute concentration. Tiny glass particles in the air are a big problem. ( One reason I don't use G-10). Sometimes we concentrate on the wrong safety concerns.

The honest truth is that the air we breathe in the cities, the food we eat at fast food places, the things we choose to put in our bodies ( drink/smoke/chemical), and the world around us are far more likely to shorten our lives than a knifemaking career that we safely pursue. You statistically have more chance of getting killed at the ATM or walking down the street than if you safely follow your knifemaking path ( you should think safety in those places, too).

However, if you have a dread of your job, find another one. If you have dread of pretty much everything, find a counselor to help you deal with that dread. Going through life scared is the fastest way to live a short life and enjoy none of it. Additionally, stress is probably the key factor to getting ill.
 
I am unfarmiliar with skin contact with metal powders being in general a significant health risk. Levels of metals in the blood are easy to check and would be a known health risk if they were a big deal. Inhaled particulates is a big known health risk, see silicosis and asbestosis to name just two.
 
Stacy and Frank, that is exctly what i thought. If you are worried about your job/hobby that much, you will get no enjoyment out of it at all and will only end up making a mistake that could really hurt you. I learned early about respirators and masks and limitied my kids access to the shop if they werent dressed properly but I enjoy my time there even if I sound like Darth vader and it's a pain to have to undress to take a phone call. Getting time lost while working on a knife is one of the best times of my day.

Side note, if you are worried about toxins, stop eating apples, cherries, peaches, plums, almonds and a dozen other fruits and veg, they all contain cyanide or compounds that become cyanide. The thing about life is that it will kill you in the end, you just have to figure out if what you are doing is worth where that end is.
 
G10 and micarta are formalin resin and give off formaldehyde .G10 also has glass fibers. Both have to be dealt with.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I think I am going to really up the safety precautions in the shop. Heres a list of what im going to do

1.) Do all heavy stock removal and bevels wet
2.) Work all micarta and g10 wet
3.) Hand sand wet
4.) Upgrade dust collection system
5.) Buy Industrial waterproof work suit for grinding. - dont want toxic sludge on my skin
7.) Buy air filtration unit
I think with these changes I can improve safety in the long run, even if its going to be a massive hassle.
 
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An artists art generally contributes to his/her death. Violynists get throat issues, clarinet players get lip issues, painters work with dangerous chemicals, most knifemakers I know don't wear their respirator enough. Your art lives on after you die and this comes with a cost.
 
While I appreciate the seriousness of KalEl's concerns, it does seem he's only thinking about dust and is ignoring the other sources of danger.

Kind of reminds me of my wife's paranoia about germs. She fights germs all the time, and uses strong chemical weapons (like bleach) to do it... never really considering the possibility the the germ fighting agents might pose their own threat.

I know it's pointless to tell a paranoid to keep their paranoia in check. But still, it might be worth saying to keep the paranoia from spreading to others. ;)
 
tryppyr said:
.

Kind of reminds me of my wife's paranoia about germs. She fights germs all the time, and uses strong chemical weapons (like bleach) to do it... never really considering the possibility the the germ fighting agents might pose their own threat.
Click to expand...

It might blow her mind when she realizes the exposure to germs is actually a good thing for people and strengthens their immune system :)
 
Tryppyr, have you mentioned the use of antibacterial agents results in making the germs stronger? The 1% of the bacteria that survive pass on their resilience to the germ population. Disinfecting causes more problems than it solves.
 
KalEl said:
Thanks for the input guys. I think I am going to really up the safety precautions in the shop. Heres a list of what im going to do

1.) Do all heavy stock removal and bevels wet
2.) Work all micarta and g10 wet
3.) Hand sand wet
4.) Upgrade dust collection system
5.) Buy Industrial waterproof work suit for grinding. - dont want toxic sludge on my skin
7.) Buy air filtration unit
I think with these changes I can improve safety in the long run, even if its going to be a massive hassle.
Click to expand...

#1-2-3 Do all grinding and sanding wet for the max safety.
#4 & #7 The best part of your list.
#5 - Forget about the suit. A plain apron is all you need for grinding. Unless you live in the frigid North, you don't even want to think about working in a waterproof suit. The sludge isn't toxic, if you really worry about it wear nitrile gloves when grinding. Just washing up after grinding is more than adequate, though.
#6 is a good idea too :)
 
Something in would like to add is make sure your respirator is sealed to your face properly. Test inhale and exhale function. A heavy beard can be a problem and hamper a good seal. I have a vacuum under my grinder and the dust still gets everywhere.
 
I think we can all benefit from a hand held particulate counter, not that expensive and will graph all particulate either .5 micron or less and read 2.5 microns or greater, or something very similar depending on the model.
Then, when anyone upgrades their dust control or air filtration, there is finally a scientific way to tell how well its working.
I will be ordering one with in the next week or two.
Since I have a basement hobby shop, It lets me check the air in the home on all the floors.
There can be all sorts of reference points to check and compare.
Jon
 
Since my work is just hobby work (not a full time job), I make it a point to do most of the dust creating work outdoors, so there is less of a problem with dust accumulation in the shop. There are limits, of course. My grinder stays indoors, but it is used almost exclusively for metal. Any wood or synthetic material is usually shaped and finished on either the 1x30 or the 4x36 outside. Hand sanding wood and synthetic stuff is mostly done outside too, unless I have the work piece clamped in a vise. But I do also have a vise on a movable work stand that sometimes goes outside too.

This was done both to preserve my health and to maintain the peace with my wife.
 
Please keep us posted (with pics) of your safety upgrades, particularly the wet grinding setup...
 
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