Steel Pitting

F

Frank Eaton

Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
362
I recently sent 2 blades of 154 CM to heat treat, when I received them back they were so terribly pitted that I can't even use them. I this steel prone to this, or is it a fluke and I am unlucky? Frank Eaton
 
Army Ranger, Sorry to hear about this thats such a downer to get them back finally and then they are unusable. :barf: .what anti climaticness! :eek: Now did they not charge you or give you a discount? Where was this place so we know to avoid? DId you provide them with data sheets for HT, was it reputable place with knife experience? Thanks in advance, sorry to hear this.
 
They did nothing yet, but I haven't asked either. I will not mention the Co, they know how to HT. I am not certain that it was their fault, I am not after blood, I just want to make sure that I don't repeat.
 
Not sure why somebody would knowingly pull the blades out of HT and send them to you - clearly pitted, without at least a phone call first...sorry for your loss, Frank.

I'm sure it's a fluke. Are the blades forged or stock removal? If forged, 154CM is red short, so that might have been the problem. If just stock removal and you didn't notice anything before HT....

Do you have pics, by chance?

I will not mention the Co, they know how to HT.
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I agree with the this by the way...I don't want to know who it was. I just hope they'll fix the problem.
 
Several possibilities.
1) Bad steel - not 154CM or poor quality
2) bad heat treat - Not likely with a professional company,but jobs do get in the wrong batch at the wrong temperature,etc.
3) Bad forging technique - Pounding scale and clinkers into the blade can make some strange spots and pits after HT.As said red shortness can cause different hardness areas and micro fractures.Was the blade fully normalized after forging and before HT?Was it properly annealed before working it?
4) Bad luck - Sometimes S**T happens for no reason except that Fate likes to screw with our minds.
5) Borax on blade - If borax,flux,turco,etc. gets on the blade it will eat pits into the steel at the temperature of stainless HT.(Several years ago I advised someone to try turco to avoid HT scale.I didn't stop to think that they were doing stainless....needless to say they were less than thrilled with the results.)
The borax can be a contaminate in the powdered charcoal put in the foil packet when doing the HT. (again,not a likely problem with a pro Co.).
 
Frank, is there much scale on the blade, indicative of oxygen intrusion during HT, or is it the normal gray but with pits? I don't know about current 154CM, but pitting on occasion has been a problem with the stuff in the past.
 
I can't be certain that I didn't send them to HT like that, but as I am finishing up my bevel with A65 grit Trizact, I am watching the grind very carefully. So I don't think that I could have possibly missed it. I had a thought, I could be a moron...does flux etch steel if left on for awhile. I soldered the guards but didn't clean up right away. As a matter of fact it was left for about a week. Frank
 
Ouch. Flux "bad". Very acidic, you betcha it'll eat steel. Minutes is bad; a week will leave it badly etched. Clean up and neutralize immediately after soldering.
 
Mystery solved, that was an expensive mistake. But I will never do that one again. 234 lessons learned, only 1535 lessons left. Frank
 
Even the rising fumes off of some fluxes can fog and etch some blade stainlesses, in my experience. I put a faint coat of heat trap paste on exposed surfaces away from the joint to keep it to a minimum.
 
Army Ranger said:
I had a thought, I could be a moron...does flux etch steel if left on for awhile. I soldered the guards but didn't clean up right away. As a matter of fact it was left for about a week. Frank
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that would do it.. that's a yeahyuper in what Mike said.. :)
for SS I use mainly 154CM,,, good stuff ;)
 
Dan Gray said:
for SS I use mainly 154CM,,, good stuff ;)
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Is it consistently "clean" nowadays, Dan? I remember when it had a "spell" of not-so-good a long time ago; you'll remember that also, I'm sure, being at this longer than me. I ended up buying a large stock of good ATS34 that I still work off and have never used "new" 154CM.

I want to get a bar of CPM154 and try that. 154 is good stuff, I agree. PITA to make shiny versus 440C.
 
fitzo said:
Is it consistently "clean" nowadays, Dan? I remember when it had a "spell" of not-so-good a long time ago; you'll remember that also, I'm sure, being at this longer than me. I ended up buying a large stock of good ATS34 that I still work off and have never used "new" 154CM.

I want to get a bar of CPM154 and try that. 154 is good stuff, I agree. PITA to make shiny versus 440C.
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+


Mike I've only been messing with the SS for maybe 6-7 years now.
I think it's getting better than yesteryear,, once in a great while I'll get a pit but over all
I'm happy with it.. at least what I've been getting.
the copycat ATS34 had it's problems too if you recall. and it shoudn't have..
I do want to try the new CPM154 out , I'd like to see the price down on it some..
yes a PITA to make shiny versus the 440C but a lot better to polish than D2 :)
 
If soldering lay in a good supply of house hold amonia, baking soda too. As Fitzo says, neutalize immediately after soldering, etc..

RL
 
I don't remember the exact sequence, Dan, those cells seem gone from the old brainbox. Somewhere along the line 154Cm had pits. ATS34 became popular as a replacement, and was clean. Then, IIRC, there was a tariff situation that made ATS hard to get. 154CM seemed to make a resurgence and was good steel. Then, when ATS34 became more accessible again, it started showing problems periodically, too.

I may have my sequence totally wrong, and my memories are fuzzy.

All I know for sure is that at different times, both have had pitting problems, and I've had 440C that does the same. Heck, all steel comes with pits sometimes. Even S30V has had a brief flirtation with a problem or two already.

And, yeah, I'd rather polish 154CM over D2, though I can't say the same for 30V! :)
 
sounds good to me...I can't recall either :confused: those Cells pasted on some time ago.. :)

fitzo said:
yeah, I'd rather polish 154CM over D2, though I can't say the same for 30V! :)
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can't say I've had the pleasure,,, yet :) from what I've heard it's not worth the extra money..
just rage of the age I think..and it will die back off too I suspect.
 
Dan Gray said:
sounds good to me...I can't recall either :confused: those Cells pasted on some time ago.. :)



can't say I've had the pleasure,,, yet :) from what I've heard it's not worth the extra money..
just rage of the age I think..and it will die back off too I suspect.
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I would love to send you some to experiment with, Dan, provided you promise to hand finish to 1200 grit and record the process, complete with sound? hehe

I have a 7" bar of 3/16" stock downstairs just waiting for the chance to terrorize someone else. ;) :D I'd be happy to send you a couple 1 foot sections. The fun starts with having to remove about 20thou of stock on either side of that version of a high-vanadium hell....

It does cut comparatively well.....
 
fitzo said:
I would love to send you some to experiment with, Dan, provided you promise to hand finish to 1200 grit and record the process, complete with sound? hehe

I have a 7" bar of 3/16" stock downstairs just waiting for the chance to terrorize someone else. ;) :D I'd be happy to send you a couple 1 foot sections. The fun starts with having to remove about 20thou of stock on either side of that version of a high-vanadium hell....

It does cut comparatively well.....
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:eek: man your scarring me now Mike..
I have up to 2000 grit,, but I sure would rather use the surface grinder
to get the biggest part done :) :
a recording with sound :confused:
I'm sure you're not looking for a lot of coherent dialog on it right :eek: ;) :D
 
No, I just wanna find out how much you curse out loud when stressed, Dan!! :D
 
stressed..
that my friend
in the past is like a skeleton in my closet
the wife tamed me a lot, of things like that a few years back..
I'm a pussycat now..kind-of

shoot me a number on shipping it, if you really want to test me :)
I don't want it costing you to mail..
do you have the HT spec's on it also?
 
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