Steel question

devgru66 said:
I didn't want to start a new thread. Is CPM 3V overkill for a EDC folder?
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Nope! It holds a fine edge very well, resists chipping, and has moderate corrosion-resistance. It is not exactly "easy" to sharpen, but it's not the terror some people would have you think, either. 3V is an outstanding choice for knives large or small.
 
I would personally love to try some 3V, from what I have read. It seems perfect for a long blade, but also decent for a folder.

If you are looking for higher end stuff, I'd look into...
ZDP-189 - long last edge and equally difficult to sharpen.
M4 - I don't have personal experience. Much tougher than ZDP, but also prone to corrosion.
CPM-154 (different than 154CM) - Similar to S30V, but maybe easier to sharpen.
3V - Very tough. I've read that it's easier to sharpen than M4.
D2 - almost stainless, but still watch for corrosion. harder to sharpen than VG-10, only from what I have read.
 
depends on your needs and if you are looking for fixed or folder, I say stay with carbon steels if you are not around a marine environment, 1095 if heated right will keep an edge and is easy to sharpen. 01 steel has been a good steel, and for larger knives that may see more abuse than a smaller knife, 5160. I have one in 52100 that I am dying to try out after reading more about it. Folders, stay with sandvik or CM 154.
 
For a user steel in folders that people EDC and really use steels like S30V, ELMAX, CPM 154 and M390 are tough to beat really as general all around user blades in folders.
 
If you are new to knives, do not worry about the high end steels. I thought I had to get a super steel, but once I got an Elmax blade I realized that the "junk steels" like AUS-8 are more than adequate. All the premium steels do is make them harder to sharpen should you forget to touch them up. Kershaw's Sandvik is wonderful, SOG and Cold Steel's AUS-8 is good, and the VG-10 in the Delica and Endura is superb. For edc purposes, even Buck's 420hc is adequate. Don't immediately delve into $100+ knives. You will just notice your wallet being empty at all times.

Do I love my higher dollar folders? Of course! Do I wish I had spent less liberally? Damn straight.
 
lots of carbon(1.5%+) and chrome can make a blade hard to sharpen. All steels are tradeoffs. The above suggestions are all good. I actually love VG10, I think it fits squarely where you are looking at, so does 440C, AUS8A, and ATS34/154cm. Stay away from any steel that looks like CPM440V/S60V/S90V. Resharpening is a giant pain in the arse.
 
Cobalt said:
lots of carbon(1.5%+) and chrome can make a blade hard to sharpen. All steels are tradeoffs. The above suggestions are all good. I actually love VG10, I think it fits squarely where you are looking at, so does 440C, AUS8A, and ATS34/154cm. Stay away from any steel that looks like CPM440V/S60V/S90V. Resharpening is a giant pain in the arse.
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I just had to recently reprofile an Elmax and S90V knife. Bloody hell, I would only wish that on my worst enemies. Elmax took me about an hour to reprofile with my sander, and S90V took about an hour to actually push cut receipt paper. Neither of these knives have hair splitting edges either... I kind of hate super steels now.
 
exactly. I had several of these steels in the past and though they stayed sharp for some time, they were next to impossible to sharpen in the field. I personally like 0.8-1.2% carbon in folding knives. It holds a good edge but can be sharpened easily.
 
I find VG10 and 440C easier to sharpen than 154CM. VG10 is good stuff. If you get ZDP, you are going to be in difficulty.
I sharpened a Queen knife in D2 and went through 3 sanding belts before it came close to where I wanted it to be.
The more wear resistant the steel, the harder to sharpen.
I recommend VG10 in a stainless, or M2 if you can find it in a high carbon steel. A steel like 1095 will also be fine in a high carbon, non stainless.
 
Cobalt said:
lots of carbon(1.5%+) and chrome can make a blade hard to sharpen. All steels are tradeoffs. The above suggestions are all good. I actually love VG10, I think it fits squarely where you are looking at, so does 440C, AUS8A, and ATS34/154cm. Stay away from any steel that looks like CPM440V/S60V/S90V. Resharpening is a giant pain in the arse.
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They aren't that bad, and I deal with those steels a lot and others with even more carbide content as most know.... ;)
 
Cobalt said:
exactly. I had several of these steels in the past and though they stayed sharp for some time, they were next to impossible to sharpen in the field. I personally like 0.8-1.2% carbon in folding knives. It holds a good edge but can be sharpened easily.
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I haven't seen a steel yet that couldn't be touched up quickly with a ceramic rod freehand like a sharpmaker rod etc....

By quickly I mean a few seconds....
 
I would suggest a nice, common stainless, S30V, in the form of a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, about $110
 
dkb45 said:
I just had to recently reprofile an Elmax and S90V knife. Bloody hell, I would only wish that on my worst enemies. Elmax took me about an hour to reprofile with my sander, and S90V took about an hour to actually push cut receipt paper. Neither of these knives have hair splitting edges either... I kind of hate super steels now.
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The real trick to sharpening those high alloy steels is the following:

  1. Start with a low grit in the 180 - 220 range and make sure it's sharp before moving into the higher grits.
  2. Once you move into the higher grits don't rush it moving to high too fast.


They really aren't any harder to reprofile and or sharpen if one is using the proper equipment to do it with. Yes, it will take longer to a point but if one is using SIC and a coarse grit it will go by pretty quickly. Once the bevel is set correctly and it's already sharp moving up through the grits is easy.

Those hair splitting edges really aren't impossible to obtain, but for an edge that will last maybe a few seconds if one cuts something.... That's up to the individual really.

I can get hair spitting edges with steels like S90V, S110V, 10V without much of a problem and with a 320-400 grit edge finish without power equipment and it doesn't take a lot of time to do it either.
 
I started my Elmax and S90V with a fresh 100 grit belt. Then 400, 1200, 3k, then stropping with black on leather, green on cardboard, then green on leather. Take note that the hour I quoted for Elmax is 100 to 3k. My hour for S90V was wrong, it was actually about 90 mins.
 
im really digging the paramilitary 2, but it seems like if I want one now I'm going to have to pay extra for it. I'm looking at the manix 2, but im not a huge fan of the blade shape. If the para had the bbl lock that'd be sick.
 
dkb45 said:
I started my Elmax and S90V with a fresh 100 grit belt. Then 400, 1200, 3k, then stropping with black on leather, green on cardboard, then green on leather. Take note that the hour I quoted for Elmax is 100 to 3k. My hour for S90V was wrong, it was actually about 90 mins.
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Honestly, if they weren't hair splitting, then you wasted quite a bit of time on those higher grits and stropping. With a good belt & sander combo you can tree to hair at 100 grit. Hair splitting at 400 is not impossible with a light touch, and I've shaved my face with a 1000 grit edge off of a waterstone because I was reading about 4K Norton edges doing it, and they work with a different grading system.

By about 1200 grit your sharpening should be done and you are down to polishing an already screaming edge.
 
If you are looking for toughness, stick with your tool steels. As you may know, and if you don't you will, tool steels D-2, A-6, M-4, are very, very tough. With that you usually sacrifice some other properties. Most often you give up "stainless-ness". In this day and age of blade coatings, that is less and less of a problem. The CPM process has allowed steel makers the ability to quite literally "tailor make", or design steels they could never do before. In general, decide your primary use, then go for a steel around that. Right this minute I'm rocking a BM 275 Seibert. It is a monster piece of D-2 sweetness. Before that I had a Spyderco Gayle Bradley in M-4. As you can see, for me stainless is no big deal, I live in Nevada. Humid to us is 11%. If you look at m-390 it is freaking amazing. That stuff has tungsten, and vanadium for days, AND 20% chromium. So it quite literally is a "Super Steel"!!

I could go on and on, I'm long winded. In general tough and not so stainless M-4 hands down, no question. Good all around and stainless too S30V or S35VN. But truly, look at M-390. It MAY be the coolest of them all.
 
I'll provide a contrarian viewpoint (that's a nice way of saying wet blanket). If you are looking for hard use, I'd personally stay away from stainless and stick with tool steels designed for that, CPM 3V, INFI, A2, etc. You could also choose a low(er) carbon alloy such as 1055 or 5160. I'm assuming this is for a chopper. It's not that they are all the same, but you need to first find a knife that you like, and then see if the steel is compatible with the characteristics that you are looking for.

From my own personal experience, ease of sharpening has NOTHING to do with carbides and wear resistance. It's all about the geometry. If you have a thick edge that you want to thin (BTDT), it's going to take a long time. Some of my easiest to sharpen knives have the most wear resistance. That includes CPM 10V, K390, CPM 3V, etc. They are a BREEZE to sharpen because they are as thin as possible with a very narrow edge bevel. I can take any of them from butter knife dull to hair shaving/splitting in 5 - 10 minutes on DMT's, ceramics, or waterstones. Take your pick.

I would only stay away from these steels if you choose a knife with a large edge bevel, such as a scandi grind with no microbevel. Then these steels would take a long time to sharpen, because of the amount of metal you have to remove each time. Of course, you could put on a small microbevel, but that's another thread.

Some of my worst sharpening knives are the underhardened S30V and mystery stainless steels in cheaper knives. They form a burr that flops around and won't let go, and are a real pain to sharpen.

Choose your knife with the thinnest edge/grind possible for the task, then try to get a steel that is strong enough to support that edge. It will be easy to sharpen, especially on diamonds.
 
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