Steel Supplier Alternative?

There is one major difference in ATS-34 from various sources. Some is hot rolled barstock. That's usually what you get when you order from a knifemaking supply house. The other is what Admiral sells, which is shear plate. It is produced in plate form and Admiral shears off strips which is what they sell you. I've found the sheath plate to be very uneven in its consistency, with a fairly large amount of inclusions and very visible grain. It does not polish well either. And yes, all ATS-434 is produced by Hitachi, but not necessarily at the same location or of the same quality.

154CM from Crucible, while of about the same composition as ATS-34 is noticeably different. It is produced in sheets, but the sheets are cross rolled (rolled then rotated 90 degrees and rolled again) to produce a finer grain. Crucible then saws it into strips as opposed to shearing, which eliminates the rounded edges you see in the Admiral AST-34. (I also think the shearing may produce some stresses in the steel which accounts for the uneven grain you see in the Admiral material) 154CM is cleaner than the ATS-34 I was getting plus it takes a much better polish.
 
Admiral shears off strips which is what they sell you. I've found the sheath plate to be very uneven in its consistency, with a fairly large amount of inclusions and very visible grain

Jerry, I agree. I have given up on Admirals ATS34. The inclusions are maddening and the graininess (swirlies and splotches) can't be polished out. I a little left that I will use up and then will be switching to something else....Since I am not above being influenced by those that know more than I do about these things, I have just picked up some BG42 and will be ordering some SV30 to try also.

I do like Admiral. They ship on time, are priced competitively, their website is easy to order from and their other steels I have tried (O1 and A2)have been fine. I just don't care for the ATS34 after 3 different orders from them over the course of a year.
 
After looking at Crucible site I`m
going to give them a try. Plus they
have a branch about 45min. from
my house
 
About ordering from Crucible. Talk to Bruce. Most Crucuble service centers know NOTHING about knife steels, and most don't want to supply them to knifemakers because the quantity is too small. I could tell some real horror stories about this, but in the interest of harmony with my favorite steel supplier I won't... :)
 
About ordering from Crucible. Talk to Bruce

I called Bruce and ordered some stock today. I mentioned your name. If enough of us do that, maybe he will name one of his children after you.
 
Jerry, is 154cm similar to ats34 as far as rusting? What are the heat treat temps and times for it? Thanks!
 
L6 , paul bos does my heat treatment and all three steels heat treat the same. ATS-34 154-cm, BG-42. you can batch them together. as far as any diff, in corrison resistance beteew ats-34 and 154cm, i54 may be a little better.
 
Laurence, is it really cost effective to send it to Paul Bos. That's a really stupid question since you do it but my only experience with sending stuff out for HT is a local shop. I needed some Damasteel heat treated and they charged me $65.00 a pop. Doesn't matter what size (they can't do anything larger than 25". It's the same price. Even if I sold my knives, that would knock a real chink out of any profits. Your HT people must be a lot more reasonable.:confused:
 
peter, i dont tink paul can do the damasteel? his minimum is about $80.00. and if any thing warps he does his best to straighten it. you may give D' a call in AZ, he batches Stainless blades and has someone there heat treat. its $5 or $10 a blade. which sounds a lot better than what your paying. i just sent him a D-2 head knife today because i don't get enought call for it to put a batch together for paul. you can contact mr. Holder at (623) 878-3064.
 
You ought to give TRU-GRIT a call for steel.
They have some of the cleanest steel I have ever used. I got ATS34 from Admiral and the same size from TRU-GRIT, the stuff from Tru-Grit looked like it was Blanchard cut, price was about the same. Blade came out perfect and they want your business!
They carry ATS34, BG42 and 440C.
1-800-532-9932
 
Originally posted by Jerry Hossom
I suggest you shop for steel based on getting the best service and material you can, and ignore price...

This is very sound advice. When I did my comparison, I tried to do apples for apples. It was just one example of one particular steel. The intent was not to find the place for the cheapest price in steel, it was to illustrate that there is such a price difference and it never hurts to look around for what YOU consider the best supplier for YOUR particular needs.

As mentioned, a full day may be spent grinding scale off of "below spec" steel. I have the same view point with stabilized wood. Yes, it is expensive but to me, it is well worth the price (or effort) considering all the time spent when trying to finish a wood handle.

Service and quality are first and foremost, price is secondary for the most part. If you feel like you are getting raked over the coals every time you do business with a certain place, it just isn't worth it, at any price.

C Wilkins
 
with 154CM and ATS-34 the cleaner the steel, the less likely it is to rust. I normally am grinding or finishing 20+ blades at a time, and since the blades are in the water a lot and never dried, I get to see rust of it's going to happen. The Admiral material rusts pretty quickly compared to other ATS-34 or 154CM. How it is ultimately finished makes a huge difference in rust resistance. Michael, since you're in a salty environment, I would recommend S30V. It is more stain resistant than 440C. While it has 14% Chromium just like ATS-34, 154CM or BG42, more of the Chromium is free and not as carbides, so it protects the steel much better.

One trick I've used with CPM-3V to make it more rust resistant (almost stainless) is to etch all my blades after finishing, then brush them out a second time. This removes the most rust prone components from the surface and leaves behind some protective oxides, a little like bluing does. It's also a fairly hard finish and wears well. I've done this same thing with ATS-34 and 154CM, to provide a nonreflective surface for combat knives. I now only do that with 154CM, because it brings out and shows ALL the minor imperfections in the steel. You can actually see the grain and it's not pretty in some batches of ATS-34.

Paul Bos is definitely "worth it" in my book. I think he has a single blade price ($10-12). I had my own oven and did all my own heat treating, until one day the heating element burt out and while I was waiting for a replacement, I sent some knives to Paul. I have not heat treated a blade since then. I simply could not do it as well. With his atmospherically controlled ovens he can get a fast quench that I can't get any other way. That makes a big difference in the quality of high alloy steels like those I use. Some makers (Simonich, Ralph and Carson) now use quench plates to get a fast quench and that works well, but unless you do, the tool wrap prevents a fast quench and you get grain growth in high chrome steels. I can't use quench plates, because of my tapered tangs; they'll just warp worse than they already do. Paul straightens all my blades after hardening, and treats all my knives like they were his own. I'm sure D'Holder is equally conscientious since he's a maker too.

BTW, since Damasteel is basically RWL-34 (powder version of ATS-34), I think Paul can treat it. He does Devin Thomas stainless damascus for me. Call him and ask.
 
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