Steel that keeps toothy edge as it it gets dull(please give me some sugestions)

Both CPM S90V and S110V have 9% Vanadium content, very high, very hard carbide content. After going through Ankerson's full testing on S110V which includes rope (720 cuts), a small mountain of cardboard and wood whittling, there was NO edge damage. He then had the blade reground down to .005" behind the apex to even further test the issues of chipping, edge stability etc. This is much thinner than the average user will ever use. Thinner than even a Opinel. Not only did the cutting ability go up from 720 cuts to over 1100 cuts because of the improved edge geometry,
there still was NO edge damage even with that extremely thin grind. And this blade was run hard at a HRC of 62 on the heat treat.
 
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I regrind most of my knives anyways , but some steels just don't keep the edge as well, I have one custom blade in 1084 that keeps much better edge than my spydercos and cold steel knives, but geometry is full convex too.Easy to get sharp, but retains its edge like crazy.Heat treatment plays its role probably too.Its fixed blade though.
 
And this cardboard I was cutting, is tough probably, my paramilitary2 with s30v got duller too, it was reground and razor sharp before.Will get manix s90v or s110v depends what is available, also considering spyderco Phil Wilson in s90v,love the grind!
 
Thankx for reply , I will probably get manix2 in s110v, was thinking about it before.
Right now there is really nothing that comes close in a *** production *** folder. And at ~$110 shipped is a great value.
BTW, the type of regrinding (regrind vs sharpening) that is being discussed here requires a pro. We are talking about the entire blade being thinned, not just behind the apex. Not realistically going to happen with a edge pro or stones. Also have to be concerned with preserving the heat treat when grinding on the belts and other issues.
Best...
 
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I'll start where me2 left off because these are good points for the discussion. For abrasives softer than the carbides, what he is saying is very true. It's a bit like removing enough of the cookie dough with the softer abrasives until the chips no longer have support and fall out. Now if the abrasives are harder than the carbides - CBN, diamond and even finer in size you can abrade through the carbides along with the surrounding matrix with some very interesting results that don't cause carbide fallout but abrade the carbides to conform with the overall edge geometry. This becomes clear when you can detect increasing levels of sharpness with abrasives far smaller than the individual carbides.

As a totally separate response topic, consider Japanese Natural stones. You have a VERY different scratch pattern - more of a sandblasted finish. The scratch pattern that intersects the edge of the edge of the bevel is uniform but has scratches at various depths. This produces a more toothy edge and a graded rate of edge failure. The edge gradually looses cutting capability. This is essentially what would be reported as increased edge retention, but is actually related to the microscopic geometry of the edge.

Now most natural stones don't have as hard of an abrasive or more accurately abrasives in them to cut through carbides effectively, so there is an interesting alternative - a hybrid slurry. You mix CBN into the natural stone slurry in very small quantities and you get the natural stone scratch pattern but you also get the ability to cut through carbides - best of both worlds. You also get a bit of increased slurry refinement from the CBN breaking down the slurry from the natural stone more rapidly too. I particularly like using my Meara stone for this task - both with and without CBN and have gotten good results on zdp-189, CPMM4 and various other abrasion resistant steels. Exactly why it works well on these steels even without the CBN 'boost' is a mystery to me, but it is consistently so.

But for regular abrasives, me2's point of using less acute angles to reduce problems with these steels (and several other 'problem' steels) is exactly correct.

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Ken
 
I completely reground few blades on a belt sander, and while its not Tom Krein quality, its not bad for my own uses, few scratches here and there ,but performance is 3-4xbetter.Will try to find manixs110v or s90v .
 
But for regular abrasives, me2's point of using less acute angles to reduce problems with these steels (and several other 'problem' steels) is exactly correct.

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Ken

Maybe I'm misreading, but I thought me2 was describing the use of these characteristics to induce carbide tear-out (prior to usage) with intent to create a more micro serrated edge by working it thinner - more acute angles. If one can manage to create such cleanly, with minimum burr remaining, the edge will be very aggressive.

I used such a strategy myself when searching for better retention at work, but never pushed it that far - stopping at < 26* inclusive on 440c (and Aus8) with an 80 grit stone, no post treatment. For pressure cuts it somewhat reduced longevity, but on materials where a low pressure drawing action cut more efficiently, edge retention went through the ceiling (all other factors being the same). Also, by keeping the geometry thin this reduces somewhat the handicap against pressure cuts that is normally the bane of coarse edges.

Overall I think my experiences agree with some of this relative to the use of waterstones, in that the lapping action combines with direct abrasion to produce somewhat unique edge irregularities. These are difficult to reproduce by other means and create cutting characteristics that really help in this application, a clean edge with a narrow cross section but somewhat pronounced irregularities for the edge width.

IMHO, managing the edge effects tends to provide great returns as part of a frequent maintenance scheme, but these are usually the first to be reduced through wear and one is left with geometry and steel composition. That said, I've yet to see a situation where the selection of finish didn't make a notable difference in longevity when faced with a recurring job and not just random usage.
 
I have a Sage1 that has S30V and its phenomenal at edge retention! I can't comment on the others because I have not owned any of them.
I use my knife all day every day for such tasks as scraping gaskets, cutting unreinforced hoses and breaking down boxes. Cutting card board is a majority of the work.
I on average sharpen it once a month. I use paper wheels with 1000 grit rouge so I don't know what the angles are and such. I just sharpen it until it will remove hair from my arm. It stays lazer sharp for quite awhile!!!!
 
I lovered the angle on my aus8 blade and sharpened it on Norton india stone, it performs much better now, and the edge bites like crazy.
 
I really like the Colt Linerlock in D2 steel. Simple dual thumbstuds that actually work
from both sides. G10 handles. Locks up tight and takes and holds a good edge.
I got mine off ebay (search colt linerlock d2). Under $20 !

Rich
 
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