Steel...The Good, The Bad & the Worthless

Randall runs 440B at 56/57 HRC, it is readily filed. It has very nice stain resistance, sharpens well, and is very tough and ductile. It has a nice set of properties for a large blade stainless steel. However the lower hardness does reduce the edge holding for some types of work as the edge will roll/deform more deadily, and it can't match the wear resistance of the high alloy grades like S30V.

The only real useless steels I have seen are low grade imports, often chrome plated. They have huge grain, actually look like sand if you break them. They are soft and easy to bend, yet brittle and crack easy. They are very easy to shape with a file, but form huge burrs you can see by eye and are near impossible to form to a crisp edge, and if you do somehow manage it, it will be gone extremely quickly.

Even the "good" steels are lously for certain knives, I have knives with steels which are very well suited for me but would be horrible for others with a different intended scope of work, physical ability or skill level. In general all well made and heat treated steels have abilities which would suit some knives and not others. I have a M2 blade at 65 HRC which makes a great utility knife, would be horrible in a large chopper.

-Cliff
 
Not to be PC :barf: about this whole point, but as a metallurgist in the field of specialty metals, including high carbon tool steels and stainless steels, I would point out that nearly all of the steels listed in this thread are in the "good" category for some uses. I would generalize that in most of these posts, the steels are categorized roughly into good, bad, & yuck based on their ability to hold a long term edge. That's certainly a reasonable criteria for hard use knives, and admittedly most readers of these forums are hard users and serious enthusiasts, who can probably tell the difference between blade materials in their normal usage. However, for a casual user, who may only use a knife once in a while, 420 can make a perfectly good knife. It stays sharp for a while, it is easy to resharpen when necessary, it can take a little abuse, and it is inexpensive. Of course it won't begin to compare to the S30V's, 154 CM's, D2's, etc. in an edge holding competition, but for its intent, it makes a pretty serviceable blade for the masses. But then, who would be content with that? ;).

The only serious point is that there isn't a single absolute "best" blade steel. Each steel is suited for a little different set of service conditions based on its individual set of properties. And, as several have pointed out, the heat treat will make or break any steel. If you want to have the "best" steel, then you have to consider what it is you want the knife to do. So all you have to do is predict the future, and you will know what your knife SHOULD have been made of -- or else, use it for a while, then when you buy your next knife (and if you are in this forum, then you WILL buy a next knife! :D ) you can buy a different steel that will do what your first knife didn't.
 
Carbon steel is certainly generally better at a low price point than similarly priced stainless. I would agree also that low-priced stainless (less than $30 a knife) is generally lousy with a few exceptions. Carbon knives, however, can vary greatly in edge holding also. Older Cases CV and Cold Steel Carbon V tend to have better edge holding in a general purpose knife than does generic carbon steel (probably 1095) IMHO. This said, carbon steel is a far better and more durable blade material that cheap stainless when given proper care. Most casual users would probably select cheap stainless over cheap carbon however because of the blade maintenance issues or simply because they see rust on their new knife soon after purchase. Another reason cheap stainless may be more popular than cheap carbon is because most tacticals and almost all cheaper "looker" knives have cheap stainless blades. These inexpensive and/or tactical looking knives are what most novice users will be interested in and thus purchase.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Randall runs 440B at 56/57 HRC, it is readily filed. It has very nice stain resistance, sharpens well, and is very tough and ductile. It has a nice set of properties for a large blade stainless steel. However the lower hardness does reduce the edge holding for some types of work as the edge will roll/deform more deadily, and it can't match the wear resistance of the high alloy grades like S30V.

The only real useless steels I have seen are low grade imports, often chrome plated. They have huge grain, actually look like sand if you break them. They are soft and easy to bend, yet brittle and crack easy. They are very easy to shape with a file, but form huge burrs you can see by eye and are near impossible to form to a crisp edge, and if you do somehow manage it, it will be gone extremely quickly.

Even the "good" steels are lously for certain knives, I have knives with steels which are very well suited for me but would be horrible for others with a different intended scope of work, physical ability or skill level. In general all well made and heat treated steels have abilities which would suit some knives and not others. I have a M2 blade at 65 HRC which makes a great utility knife, would be horrible in a large chopper.

-Cliff
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Mr. Stamp,

Should the information on Randall be true, this was one of the more informative, to the point, and fact-filled postings that I have seen you make.
I would look forward to seeing more along this line.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The Drifter said:
I would agree also that low-priced stainless (less than $30 a knife) is generally lousy with a few exceptions.
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I've got another exception for you. I bought a Byrd Meadowlark to test. The steel is very similar to 440C. It cost $18! It takes and holds an edge that an $18 knife has no right to do. ;)
 
Steven Roos said:
Well, I haven't had much experience with 440B, so I shouldn't really include it, but it only has a bit more carbon than 440A. I can't imagine it is that much better.
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Steven,

What about 440B with a little vanadium? We will be testing it soon. ;)
 
Chuck Bybee said:
Steven,

What about 440B with a little vanadium? We will be testing it soon. ;)
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Sounds cool. What does it heat treat to? Should have some nice wear resistance. Could be a very stain-resistant steel with good edge holding.
 
good thread .Also the heat treat on some of the lower end knives may be poor so that your not getting maximum sue from the steel. I say buy alot of knives.....and beat them up till you find what you like :D
 
blgoode said:
good thread .Also the heat treat on some of the lower end knives may be poor so that your not getting maximum sue from the steel. I say buy alot of knives.....and beat them up till you find what you like :D
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blgoode is absolutely correct. I'm not a fan of AUS6 except for Spyderco and Kershaw. They've refined the heat treat so the steel holds an edge much longer than other companies. Kershaw also heat treats 440A very well.
 
i bought a 3 inch hollow gorund nieto folder made of 440c for 30 bucks, does everything you need a small folder to do and shaves my arms after a bit of a touch up. i agree that carbon steel is better for the price than stainless but if its stainless you can fall asleep drunk and not worry about leaving it filthy :D
 
Chuck, I have heard lots of good things about the Byrd folders. With the Spyderco backing on these, I would guess that they are probably as good at the Benchmade Red Class knives. I have not gotten to handle one yet though.

Charlie 4727, glad you got a good deal at a low price. I had a work acquaintence who carried a filthy cheap stainless steel knife. He said he liked it because he did not have to clean the blood of his murder victims off of it :eek: . I can't say I have ever had much use for a knife when I was really drunk except the bottle opener on SAK's to open my next bottle of microbrew.
 
OK...some time has passed since I first posted to this forum and I've added some very interesting blades to my collection. I have a very good question, again regarding the blade steel that Buck is using.
I bought a TEMPEST to my growing Buck series and it says some rather interesting things to me.
I was under the impression that the balde steel was 420HC but upon closer inspection I see the designation 295 stamped into the blade. What does this represent? Tell me everything you can...thanks all.
 
A quick word of warning, read the data sheet on any new Bucks that you intend to buy. I noticed that their new keychain knife, the NRG, is made from 420J2. Granted, it retails for about $12 if I remember right, so expectations should be low, but my point is that you can't just assume anymore that low-end Bucks will be decently heat-treated 420HC. Maybe they can work their HT magic on 420J2, but I have my doubts.

Gordon
 
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but a lot of folks in this forum are a bit "snobbish" when it comes to blade steel. Soft stainless steels are generally very stainless, whereas the harder ones are only somewhat stainless. Also, the harder steels break under chopping (axes are made soft for this reason and the good ones are differentially tempered). So application is key when deciding what blade steels are "good enough". And if you enjoy knife sharpening, then you'll be quite happy with 420HC, 440A, and AUS-6. Having said that, it's time for me to get a bit snobbish myself and say that I'm disappointed in a lot of Gerber's steel these days. Their "400 Series Stainless" blades fall short of what I've come to expect from their company. But then look at the prices. You do generally get what you pay for.
 
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