Steel used in Gerber folders

[Confederate]

a reputable store owner told me it is likely 440A or 440C.

OUCH!! I don't think there's any way you'll get 440C. If it's anything better than 440A, I think the company would advertise it. If it was 440C, they'd damn well advertise it!

440A if you're lucky. 420J2 or it's equivalent, what a lot of companies are using right now for liners.

Amen. I don't think you're gonna get 440A and Gerber say it's "400-series" steel or if it's a "surgical stainless". Surgical instruments get used once in this country and then it's disposed of. I used to work for NIH, and during a snowstorm when I couldn't get to my regular doctor to have some stitches removed, I talked someone there to remove them and change my bandages. Afterwards, they gave me a plastic bag full of the clamps, tweezers, scissors and the other instruments they used. (They told me that they just toss 'em after one use.) That really surprised me at first, especially when other nations would love to get such packages! But the thing is, scalpels are very sharp, but they're not made to be reused or resharpened.

I've had Maxxams, Dollar Store knives and other trashy knives that I can get blisteringly sharp. They may not stay real sharp, but they get shaving sharp. But I've had Gerber and Boker Magnum 440A knives that came out of the box dull and never...ever...were able to be sharpened. You have to wonder why?

I just now sharpened an inexpensive S&W folder with a 440C blade and I can't recall the last time I sharpened it. I use it for stuff I wouldn't use my good knives for. We can also discuss heat treatments and the various things that go into making decent knives, but why can't I sharpen my cheap Boker and Gerbers? It's bad when you have poor edge retention, but what happens when you can't even get an edge?? I could argue that my Boker Magnum and Gerbers have outstanding edge retention because they retain their same horrible edges.

I was showing someone my S&W Homeland Security Tanto recently and the thing looks like a flippin' pry bar. Anyway, the guy cuts himself with it! I apologize, but I couldn't believe it was sharp enough to cut him. Conversely, I also couldn't believe it when my Gerber Paraframe couldn't cut through a blister pack on a card reader I had bought. It scratched the plastic, but couldn't penetrate it. What did cut it was a 440A Cold Steel Night Force, plain edge. :barf:

I still don't know what Gerber makes its knives out of or how it's heat treated, but I'm convinced it's pretty awful. Ditto with the Boker Magnum series. The one I bought was known simply as the "Tank." The fit and finish were also horrible, so go figure!

My first locking knife, purchased at a Dollar Store years ago. I keep
it in a drawer with other retired knives.

Not all 440A is created equal. This Cold Steel Night Force easily
rivals the AUS8 found in CRKT knives.

Heat treat means everything. This Buck/Cabelas Alaskan 110 has
a gorgeous S30V blade and, wonder of wonders, it has top tier
heat treat. The down side is brass bolsters and a sheath.

 

[Vanguard41xx]

My look on Gerber: stay away! I do not trust them anymore, unless it is the MKII, or their older products. Their style on some of them is weird. The feel is terrible. That Bear is out to get people with his products.To tell you the truth, a nice orange handled spyderco is the way to go. Just my opinion.

 

[Samillus]

theres actually a gerber out with cpm S30v the handle is terrible but im just make a new one or get one commissioned definitely worth the $20 tag also these were taken on my phone so the quality is rather bad on that close up

i obtained one of these not too long ago. i've been wondering if anyone else knew they existed. its the only gerber knife i currently own or like.

 

[Scott Dog]

If you like the way it looks, buy it your GF probably won't know or care what steel it is.

 

[Wunderbar]

The Gerber Bear Grylls Scout knives are 7Cr17MoV. It has almost the identical make up as 440A. .7% carbon and 17% Chromium. Another Chinese steel.

 

[softrockrenegade]

 

[chiral.grolim]

I don't think you're gonna get 440A and Gerber say it's "400-series" steel or if it's a "surgical stainless".

Yes, you do get 440A.

The Gerber Bear Grylls Scout knives are 7Cr17MoV. It has almost the identical make up as 440A. .7% carbon and 17% Chromium. Another Chinese steel.

Surgical instruments get used once in this country and then it's disposed of.

I DO work for the medical industry (a major medical/research facility receiving NIH funding) and can state with authority that this is NOT the case.
We wash and sonicate our instruments, then autoclave of EO sterilize them for reuse.
Steel surgical instruments are quite costly. When our scissors become too dull for regular use, they are relegated to research (non-clinical) use, and it takes quite a while for well-cared-for instruments to reach that point.

The only "surgical steel" implements we dispose of after single use are needles and clinical scalpel-blades, which are dangerous to clean and also dull over time. The stainless steel used in our scalpel blades is most commonly Sandvik 13C26 - look it up, this is not meager steel.

...they gave me a plastic bag full of the clamps, tweezers, scissors and the other instruments they used. (They told me that they just toss 'em after one use.)

What was the condition of those instruments?? Where were you that a nurse/technician was being so wasteful?? No facility I have ever been to behaves in such a way...

But I've had Gerber and Boker Magnum 440A knives that came out of the box dull and never...ever...were able to be sharpened. You have to wonder why?

Technique.

i obtained one of these not too long ago. i've been wondering if anyone else knew they existed. its the only gerber knife i currently own or like.

Yes, I know quite a few hunters who own and use them (and love them), though none of them frequent this forum to my knowledge.

If you like the way it looks, buy it your GF probably won't know or care what steel it is.

:thumbup::thumbup:
There are better knives, but for the money, and if you like the design... Does you GF care?

 

[Rafthos]

The Gerber ez out I have in S30V is total crap. The edge chipped horribly on weather stripping.

 

[Wunderbar]

Yes, you do get 440A.

I spoke with Gerber myself and I was told that any steel that is not marked or labeled is 420HC. The old EZ-Outs were in 440A but the newer skeletonized ones are 420HC.

 

[Fallbrook Forge]

I assume the blade is made out of the same stuff the standard knife is, which would be 420HC. They just throw on a plastic handle, that doesn't hold up as well as the original design, but they double the price.

Huh are you saying the BG scout is a rehandled previous model that I can find for 12$? If that is what you're saying, please state the model.

Thanks for all the level headed responses!!!:thumbup::thumbup:

I was really worried about starting another BG bashing thread

The only reason I asked about this particular knife is I handled it at REI and it feels pretty awesome for $25. It's light and thin, but feels sturdy. And it's sharp. As far as giving my girlfriend a mystery steel junker knife.. Not gonna happen...
She has her own Glock 19, BCM carbine, and she bought me a Northwoods Scagel folder. She knows quality from crap.
I initially got her a spyderco military in orange, but that damn thing is gigundous!!! She can't use because she can't carry it

I think I'll give the BG scout a try.. That way I can recomend/steer clear non knife people.

The others I'm thinking of is the UK pen knife, and the Blade-Tech Ganyana lite.

Are there any other thin, orange handled, quality knives?

 

[chiral.grolim]

I spoke with Gerber myself and I was told that any steel that is not marked or labeled is 420HC. The old EZ-Outs were in 440A but the newer skeletonized ones are 420HC.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe 420HC is an American steel (as is 440A, and Swedish Sandvick 12C27 used to be used in some of their knives), but as Gerber (Fiskars) has outsourced much production they've implemented a Chinese compositional "equivalent" in knives made in China, 7Cr17MoV. Gerber may also change what steel their knives are made of from time to time, as they did with the American-made LMFII (12C27 -> 440A -> 420HC). I guess Gerber doesn't think you'll be able to distinguish 420HC, 440A, 7Cr17MoV, or even 12C27 performance-wise...

Anyway, if a Gerber rep told you that your unmarked knife was 420HC, okay. But I've had a Gerber rep tell me that an unmarked knife was 7Cr17MoV, so there is no way that all unmarked knives are 420HC. Maybe it's model specific (or they're playing fast&loose with steel nomenclature), but you should still be getting 'better' steel than 420J.

 

[Gator97]

7Cr17MoV is also playing fast/loose. There is no such steel in Chinese GB standards. 7Cr17 steel is standard, and it has 0.75% Moly, but no V in the spec.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The only reason I asked about this particular knife is I handled it at REI and it feels pretty awesome for $25. It's light and thin, but feels sturdy. And it's sharp.

Are there any other thin, orange handled, quality knives?

Benchmade, Spyderco, Blade-tech, Kershaw, Buck, KaBar, and others all offer orange-handled models, e.g. Benchmade griptilian or KaBar Dozier. Just google "(company) knife orange" and peruse the results... but prices vary.

Another option... buy any knife you like and prime/paint it Also, some small fixed blades (e.g. Fallkniven WM1) can have custom orange scales attached... if fixed is an option.

 

[A.P.F.]

7Cr17MoV is also playing fast/loose. There is no such steel in Chinese GB standards. 7Cr17 steel is standard, and it has 0.75% Moly, but no V in the spec.

You may find this link interesting, Gator.

 

[Gator97]

You may find this link interesting, Gator.

I've seen it, I spend considerable time on alibaba when researching steels, and there's quite a bit of incorrect/conflicting data.

And this link from the same site even has 7Cr17MoV composition, stating V - 0.04, I mentioned all that in 7Cr17MoV file and in other thread here on BF.

The problem is that the seller(in second link with composition) lists that steel as AISI/JIS strandard, which is false, neither AISI no JIS standards use that naming convention to begin with, and neither has 7Cr17 or 7Cr17MoV.
I have two GB stainless steel standards, both have 7Cr17 and neither has 7Cr17MoV. Very likely that someone just added Mo(at least it has Mo in it) and V for no good reason...

 

[A.P.F.]

Thanks for clearing that up, Gator. :thumbup:

 

[chiral.grolim]

... Very likely that someone just added Mo(at least it has Mo in it) and V for no good reason...

Wierd. Could it be an accident, just trying to maintain consistency with steels like 8Cr14MoV, etc.?

(Btw, thank you for zknives.:thumbup::thumbup: Seriously, thank you much. And again, thank you. That's a very informative site, imho. Thank you.)

 

[brets-ftw]

The Gerber ez out I have in S30V is total crap. The edge chipped horribly on weather stripping.

maybe you got a bad batch, its a $20 knife for cryin out loud it doesnt even come with washers, and even if the HT is bad on s30v i bet itll still beat whatever HT they have on 7cr17, 12c27, or 420hc

 

[Gator97]

Thanks for clearing that up, Gator. :thumbup:

NP, unfortunately, I didn't really clear up much. I was updating steel chart with Chinese GB standards info, when those threads started popping up. I wouldn've noticed otherwise.

Wierd. Could it be an accident, just trying to maintain consistency with steels like 8Cr14MoV, etc.?

Can be. Although adding V at the end, is rather dubious. I'll check the other names in the standards.
And you're welcome

 

[weldingandmetalfab]

Hello I am new to the page, I am a welder as well as a metal fabricator. and agree with all of you to a point. =) but if you want a knife that can really hold a edge, and is durable with good steel that's strong aginst corrosion and rust try a ZT knife it would be CMP S30V stainless steel. I am not saying anyone's wrong and this specific metal is incredibly expensive BUT it's one of the best on the market. I have a ZT knife and a smith and Wesson, the ZT I've had 5 years never dulled out, and I collect knives and guns as a hobby. And for knives it's been sense I was around 5-6. I've experimented with allmost all grades of steel. heck I even took a mild steel bar and grinded the sides down to make a sword and that kind of steel is not even made for blades the over all best in all my years of knife collecting is the ZT knife. I got mine new for around 150$. But the way I looked at it is I live in a bad city and I need to protect. my self and family as well as use my knife for heavy duty work sometimes. even prying, my ZT knife did not bend chip or even scratch and that's metal vs metal! I am a metal worker as I said before. But you need in my opinion steel wise if you have reliable steel. I bought a smith and Wesson 7cr17 high carbon blade yesterday... it's already dull.... I figured I'd use it like I'd use my ZT knife and it's dulled truly a terrible steel in my own opinion. But then again it's all about who makes the knife and HOW they make it! and it's all about heat treatments, how much time and effort the company puts into their knife the quality of the steel the carbons and metal fragments they add in, if it's forged, or if it's just a piece of steel that's punch pressed, or even if they are just pumping them out as fast as possible! With every company there is a different method they use for their knife. And could make the best of the steel they have if they do everything right it should do what you want. Keep in mind if you want to keep buying these Gerber knives and smith and Wesson's your going to lose more money in the long run. If but get a knife that you need of course but for self defense I would go with the zero tolerance knives or ZT. for common day use (edc) opening small packages cutting small things I'd say a CASE company knife they hold a blade for about 10 years, and they are around the 60-120$ range but if you look online you can get one for about 50-80$. (not sure of the steel on them but I can deffentally say it's good.) Now if you are looking for survival, I'd say anything that won't dull out! literally look for the sharpest large knife that holds a blade the best I can't name any to think of still trying to find one myself. living in the woods of Pennsylvania state where we have forests that stretch 50 miles before you find a road. (not where I live because I live in a city not a town) and for work related use such as welding i would suggest two knifes and I would also suggest to get BOTH! 1 a Leatherman not a knock off brand ether, Or you will end up with another dulled out crap tool that's falling apart. And ether a ZT knife or something you can go to a field and stream and buy for 140+$ and do your research before blindly buying it, just because it costs a lot doesn't mean it's the greatest. Plus the people at field and stream are awesome... well some of them are.... ZT makes a lot of knives find one that you like! And also don't get stuck to one company, look around test stuff out that's how I found ZT. And I'll keep collecting until I die finding better and better blades! =D but I think I covered every knife type you can get... except cooking and I don't really care about cooking nore do I think any of you are. And I love reliable knives because if I cannot take a gun with me, I'll bring two pocket knives. And if my life is threatened I'll use the knives to stop them. (notice I did not say kill! Everyone's life is important to someone think of them.) but if anyone can dig up any other really good knives that are like a ZT knife in stores let me know. I'll pick one up test it put it though all sorts blade tests such as sharpening how strong the tip is anyone ever see that? Great knife yet the tip breaks off now it's basically useless? Not with ZT! and I'll get back to you with a video, and I'll post or I'll be willing to send it anyway you want me to. And I'll even video it! And rather or not the knife is worth the money like I said I collect them so I don't care about putting 200$ into a knife. and fellas and lady's no daggers or anything please! just pocket knives thank you for reading this, if you have questions why I say the steel I have put so much hype into and the company's let me know. And you can always look it up on YouTube. keep in mind I am a metal fabricator with a 2 year degree in welding and metal fabrication. I know good quality metal when I see it I worked on lots of it. And I've never heard of a bachelor's degree so I am at my max. any questions about heat treatment look online it's what makes the knife! so long