Steeling a knife

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Apparently this technique is common among European chefs. Hold the steel horizontally (level) and pointing straight out in front of you; then draw the blade across it a right angles (that's what I meant by 90 degrees) -- the edge just lightly touching the steel. That way you can maintain the correct attitude (or angle) of blade to steel. If you hold the steel vertically and whisk the blade up and down both sides (like you see in flashy cooking shows) it is just about impossible to maintain a consistent attitude of blade to steel due to your natural wrist action. I try to lay the blade bevel flat against the steel, then just raise it a degree or so. It seems to work for me, anyway.
 
I mean the axis of the blade at 90 degrees (right angle) across the steel, like this: +. The blade is not 90 degrees vertical to the steel but lying flat across it, just the edge touching. Align the blade as if you were going to shave a very, very thin shaving off the steel, but instead of stroking forward, draw it across from heel to tip sideways. Do this very lightly, once or twice on each side. This gives you better control along the length of the blade as you draw it across the steel.
 
UnknownVT said:
I have heard for years that using a plain smooth steel "burnishes" the edge - and makes it more durable and longer lasting than stropping
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Its the exact opposite. Smooth steels deform the edge of the knife and make it *much* weaker resulting in it going blunt *much* faster. Bend a piece of metal past the elastic point and not bend it agani through the same angle. It is much easier to bend this time, keep bending it and see what happens.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Its the exact opposite. Smooth steels deform the edge of the knife and make it *much* weaker resulting in it going blunt *much* faster. Bend a piece of metal past the elastic point and not bend it agani through the same angle. It is much easier to bend this time, keep bending it and see what happens.
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That goes for smooth steels. What about diamond steels?

My experience with my Global knives is that constantly steeling maintains their sharpness much longer.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Its the exact opposite. Smooth steels deform the edge of the knife and make it *much* weaker resulting in it going blunt *much* faster. Bend a piece of metal past the elastic point and not bend it agani through the same angle. It is much easier to bend this time, keep bending it and see what happens.

-Cliff
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Yep. Cliff's right. Up to a point. ;) Unless your a butcher or someone who exclusively cuts soft material, steeling after sharpening makes no sense. Steeling realigns the blade and allows you to keep making clean cuts with minimal snagging or tearing. When the only material you cut is soft, wear resistance is less an issue than a ragged cut. Once you feel the edge start to snag, steeling will realign the edge. When steeling, a little trick is to remember which side of the blade touched the steel last. If the edge still snags, steel again and make the last stroke on the other side of the blade. For pocket knives, steeling makes sense before sharpening since any weakened steel will be removed later when honed.
 
cognitivefun said:
That goes for smooth steels. What about diamond steels?.
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They are not really steels, they are actual sharpening abrasives. For example you would not call using a Sharpmaker steeling.

With modern low cost, fine ceramic abrasives, steeling doesn't make a lot of sense, as you get similar speed and ease of use and much longer edge lifetime with a suitable ceramic rod.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
With modern low cost, fine ceramic abrasives, steeling doesn't make a lot of sense, as you get similar speed and ease of use and much longer edge lifetime with a suitable ceramic rod.
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Yes, right to a certain extent....

If one wants to "resusitate" an edge withOUT removing material
using a smooth steel is the only way I know of (ok, on a smooth glass bottle too :) ).

I understand the weakening - but also can see the alignment of the edge - especially for cutting soft materials like meat.

BTW - just to try to help poor (and misunderstood) Alberta Ed -
Of course he did NOT mean to put the knife with the edge cutting on the steel.
What I understood him to mean from his first attempted post - was to align the cutting edge bevel with the steel at the heel of the blade and just pull across the steel (ie: at 90deg) without the typical up down stroking of steeling or like on crock-sticks.
Hey maybe I'll now be classed with Alberta Ed as someone who would be idiotic enough to cut the steel in an attempt to sharpen it.... :D

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
UnknownVT said:
If one wants to "resusitate" an edge withOUT removing material using a smooth steel is the only way I know of
Click to expand...

Yes, any why would you want to do that when you could instead restore the edge to 100% in the same time with ceramic rods, instead of leaving deformed metal there which folds right back over almost immediately. This is why people steel so frequently when cutting, as the edge is *weak* and collapses readily, it is essentially a wire edge.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes, any why would you want to do that when you could instead restore the edge to 100% in the same time with ceramic rods, instead of leaving deformed metal there which folds right back over almost immediately. This is why people steel so frequently when cutting, as the edge is *weak* and collapses readily, it is essentially a wire edge.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

If that is true (and I don't doubt you), why does steeling my Global knives with my Global diamond steel extend the time between sharpening so dramatically? I only sharpen every month or two, when I steel.

Without steeling, the blade gets dull quite fast. How do I know? My wife doesn't steel and when I go on a business trip and get back, the knife is quite dull compared to how it is normally, simply because she doesn't steel.

So what is the explanation?
 
cognitivefun said:
why does steeling my Global knives with my Global diamond steel extend the time between sharpening so dramatically?
Click to expand...

A diamond steel acts like an abrasive, it will actually fully sharpen a knife.

Even a smooth steel will extend the time between sharpenings, as you can steel until the edge breaks off.

However you can use a ceramic rod instead of a smooth steel and the time between rod'ing will be many times longer than between steelings.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes, any why would you want to do that when you could instead restore the edge to 100% in the same time with ceramic rods, instead of leaving deformed metal there which folds right back over almost immediately. This is why people steel so frequently when cutting, as the edge is *weak* and collapses readily, it is essentially a wire edge.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand that -

I remember you pointed out before using ceramic V-hone/rods there is a danger of folding over the edge on softer steels
(typical in butchering knives).

So although a ceramic rod will sharpen the blade by removing a small amount of material -
wouldn't it also act the same way as a smooth steel by folding over the edge - thus weakening it?

Perhaps that's why the butchering/cutting industry still persist in using steels -
it may seem like "ignorance" -
but often could it possibly be because it works?

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
UnknownVT said:
So although a ceramic rod will sharpen the blade by removing a small amount of material -
wouldn't it also act the same way as a smooth steel by folding over the edge - thus weakening it?
Click to expand...

It can, if you press really hard, and/or the edge is really weak in the first place and thus the sharpener isn't aggressive enough, the Spyderco flat rods are also better than round one for this reason.

Anyway, when this happens you cut the edge with a medium rod then finish on a smooth one. You should not need the medium one for a few sharpenings, just when you notice the edge retention has degraded signficantly.

Perhaps that's why the butchering/cutting industry still persist in using steels -
it may seem like "ignorance" -
but often could it possibly be because it works?
Click to expand...

No, it is just the way it was always done and people resist change. Steve B. was involved in a sharpening project recently, and upgraded similar sharpening techniques including steeling and the result was a very pleased set of workers. He talked about the project on rec.knives awhile ago.

-Cliff
 
Thanks again Cliff -

here's a quote from a sharpening instructional article that has become legend and a reference on the net, it supports BOTH the use of a smooth steel and a ceramic rod -

ref:
How to Sharpen a Knife tips from an old meat cutter
by Dee Griffin, DVM
University of Nebraska, Great Plains Veterinary Educational Center

QUOTE:
KEY POINT: "THE STEEL".

Using a "Steel": As many blade edges are damaged by steels as are improved. USE A SMOOTH STEEL, WITH A CAREFULLY DIRECTED LIGHT TOUCH.

A “steel” has aligning grooves designed to straighten an edge. I think it is better to lightly pull the defects back into proper alignment than to push them into alignment. This is accomplished by using a pulling stroke (pulling up from the handle away from the cutting edge). After the edge has been realigned, a light down stroke (pushing the edge into the steel) will firm the cutting edge. Be gentle, a hard whipping stroke can wreck an edge as fast as anything I know.

Steel come in four cutting types: Course Cut, Regular Cut, Fine Cut and Polished - No Cut. Course and Regular Cut Steels seem to be everyone's favorite … everyone except those who make a living with a knife. Packing house workers use a very smooth (polished - no cut) steel for most of their knife blade’s cutting edge maintenance. You will notice them polishing their steel frequently with an emery cloth (“180” to “400” grit). The emery cloth helps keep the steel smooth and the small grooves in the steel aligned. A course-steel has very distinct aligning grooves. When a blade’s cutting edge is used harshly against the deep grooves in a course steel it can cause the cutting edge to chip. The little nicks left in the edge will make the blade seem sharper for a few cutting strokes. The nicks soon wear down and repeated attempts to “steel the knife sharp will be futile.

THE CERAMIC ROD AS A STEEL: I love ceramic rods to touch up cutting edges. I use them like a steal using a soft light touch. Note: Ceramic rods are very fine (>”1200” grit) abrasives therefore do more than straighten edges.

THE GRIP: Hold the steel as if it were an extension of your arm (stiff but don’t over grip). If held to tightly, the reflex action of the opposite stroking hand if often too firm against the steel. This will cause blade damage.

THE STROKE: When stroking a “steel”, avoid twisting your wrist or elbow … keep them stiff. Learn to use the motion of your upper arm and shoulder, rotating your knife hand as you stroke each side of the blade. Keep Your Eye On Your Thumb! Watching the thumb nail of the stroking hand will allow you to develop a consistent angle on each side of the blade as you rotate your wrist.

The angle of the steeling stroke is just slightly greater than the CA you set on the knife (approximately 30 degrees for a 25 degree CA).

sharp4.GIF


Learn to “feel” for defects in the blade’s cutting edge.

You can feel the small bent or damaged areas in a blade edge. A “pulling stroke” or “back stroke” against the steel is the gentlest approach to a “steel”. Use the steel to straighten the small bent areas in the blade, not break them. A “course-steel” will straighten severely bent areas on an edge. If you abuse these areas with the course steel, the blade will require reworking.

Care of a steel:

Most “Steels” have no chromium, therefore they will rust. I clean, dry and oil my “steels” after use. NaOCl (bleach) will pit low or no chromium metals such as steels and some knives.
UNQUOTE


--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
Just as a point of information, I have two grooved steels left over from defunct kitchen sets. I used them recently to touch up a couple of Griptilians. I noticed that afterwards they did not slice typewriter paper near as nicely as before steeling. Think I'll make tent stakes out of them and buy a smooth one, or just settle for stropping.
U
 
UnknownVT said:
So although a ceramic rod will sharpen the blade by removing a small amount of material -
wouldn't it also act the same way as a smooth steel by folding over the edge - thus weakening it?

Perhaps that's why the butchering/cutting industry still persist in using steels -
it may seem like "ignorance" -
but often could it possibly be because it works?

--
Vincent
Click to expand...

Actually most of the people I worked with were familiar with ceramic steels and considered them to do a superior job. The reason nobody used them at work is because they were considered too expensive and also too fragile.

Chris
 
Guys, theres 2 types of steels
One that removes metal and one that burnishes. The type that removes metal (diamond/ceramic) is a sharpener
The smooth type will burnish the edge. Butcher steel every few strokes. Do that with a diamond one and see how long a knife will last. Hey, the wire edge will still cut. If you break it off, the edge will then roll again after a few cuts
 
I am a big fan of the humble kitchen steel, but I don't use just a steel. I have a Gatco stone and clamp set, and no matter what, I can't put a razor edge on anything. The ressulting edge will be sharp, but will not shave. I find that if after I've used the stones on a knife, after about 5 minutes of steeling on each side of the knife with a butcher's steel and it will shave hair of of my face! I have no clue why this happens, but it works for me. Will someone enlighten me as to why it does this?
 
Just a guess. I'd think a smooth steel for a meat cutter would be cleaner than a ceramic steel. Yeah the ceramic is smooth too but all those little poors would shurly trap blood and crud. That said I much prefer my ceramic steel over my smooth metel steel.
 
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