I steel with the SPINE leading (ala Gordon Ramsey) which I have been doing for years before I even heard of the guy. I strop that way, I steel that way. I sharpen edge first (on stones/sharpmaker) with the last few passes spine first. Hair popping.
I use wusthof micro-groove steels. they straigten the edge.
Remember, the steel in your knife may be at 62hrc and the HONING STEEL at 56-8 or less, but the steel is uniform smoothness, the EDGE of your knife is the thin part that though it might be 62hrc, is a thin thin piece of it and subject to bending.
Below are posts from a person on cheftalk forums that I trust and seems to be making lots of sense.
............................
* boar_d_laze
*
* 5,524 Posts. Joined 2/2008
* Location: Monrovia, CA
*
Former Chef
You can steel anything with a reasonably symmetric bevel that's not much harder than 61 HrC, or more asymmetric than 66/33. You have to steel right, and not smack the blade against the steel, or put too much pressure on the blade, or steel for dozens of strokes at a time. But that's true for European knives too, even though they're more forgiving of abuse. Anyway, you can sure as heck steel knives made in Japan.
This has been a huge topic at Fred's and the KF. There are a few die-hard "don't ever steel anything from Japan" people, but it seems like about half of (appropriate) gyuto users do steel them.
Plenty of big deal Japanese companies make rod-hones, not only Shun, Global and MAC, but plenty who don't give a darn about sales to the west -- Masamoto for instance.
I have never, not once, NOT EVER, talked to anyone who claims to have wrecked his or her own Japanese knife by steeling. What "empirical" stories there are, are always about other people.
Korin has seen a lot of knives which have been damaged by bad steeling. I don't usually do "motive," but maybe that's the reason they're categorically negative. With the greatest respect for their in-house sharpener, and with respect for whatever their reasoning is: They are wrong. And yes, it's really that simple.
You don't have to steel, but what's your alternative? Are you going to keep a couple of stones in the bucket, ready to go every time you ding an edge on the board, every third chicken you break, and before every other night you cook? If you do, you'll eat through your knives and stones PDQ.
One thing about Japanese manufactured knives, because of the (typically) higher hardness of their blade alloys, they tend to need less steeling than western made knives of similar geometry. But they are thin, they do wave, and consequently still need truing. For most of them the right steel is the best and most efficient way to do it.
BDL
* boar_d_laze
*
* 5,524 Posts. Joined 2/2008
* Location: Monrovia, CA
*
Former Chef
Yank,
'm going to avoid the term "hone," because it's ambiguous. You should steel. Not to sharpen, but to maintain the edge. Maybe that's what Chef Aaland meant. If it isn't, he may be right but he's in the vast minority. Anyway...
Use a steel to straighten any slight bending of the edge coming with use. Assuming you want some longevity on your edge, the best regimen is to use a "smooth" or "glass smooth" steel the first few days after you've sharpened, then switch to a fine or extra-fine steel to for the next few days after the smooth steel stops working as well. The fine adds a little "scratch" to the edge so it bites through things it will no longer "fall" through. Tomato skins, for instance. As a practical matter, this means you'll add a slight slice action to your initial stroke on these things. I'm sure you're familiar with the feeling of a blade that's still too sharp to sharpen.
Forschner makes decent fine and smooth steels for a decent price. Sounds like Forschner, doesn't it? But they don't really match the quality of your knives. Pfui!
I know of three really good combination steels. One is the Dickoron "Combi" made by F. Dick. It's a beauty, but around $100. The other two are made by HandAmerica: their (a) steel, and (b) borosilicate "glass" combination rods. You can find them at Japanese Knife Sharpening, Japanese Knife Sharpening The glass is probably the best performer of all three, but requires some babying. If price matters, get the HandAmerica steel. If price doesn't matter Dickoron just screams, "The Best."
As to ceramic itself, a number of materials are suitable and modern ceramics are among them by virtue of their hardness. The trick is finding the right textures.
That having been said, I'd certainly ask around the Knife area at Foodie Forums and at the Knife Forum itself. There are some guys there who seriously know their onions. Also, I'd probably email Koki at JCK and ask him which steels he recommends for your particular knives. I think Masamoto makes some really good ones.
It seems like the majority of Japanese knife users in this country think water stones make the best sharpening system for Japanese knives; and indeed, they're the traditional Japanese sharpening agent. I don't disagree that there's nothing better, but think other "uber" sharpening systems work as well. To my mind every system around has its strengths and flaws, it depends which you find least irritating.
Hope this helps,
BDL
http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/58377/do-you-steel-japanese-knives
I use wusthof micro-groove steels. they straigten the edge.
Remember, the steel in your knife may be at 62hrc and the HONING STEEL at 56-8 or less, but the steel is uniform smoothness, the EDGE of your knife is the thin part that though it might be 62hrc, is a thin thin piece of it and subject to bending.
Below are posts from a person on cheftalk forums that I trust and seems to be making lots of sense.
............................
* boar_d_laze
*
* 5,524 Posts. Joined 2/2008
* Location: Monrovia, CA
*
Former Chef
You can steel anything with a reasonably symmetric bevel that's not much harder than 61 HrC, or more asymmetric than 66/33. You have to steel right, and not smack the blade against the steel, or put too much pressure on the blade, or steel for dozens of strokes at a time. But that's true for European knives too, even though they're more forgiving of abuse. Anyway, you can sure as heck steel knives made in Japan.
This has been a huge topic at Fred's and the KF. There are a few die-hard "don't ever steel anything from Japan" people, but it seems like about half of (appropriate) gyuto users do steel them.
Plenty of big deal Japanese companies make rod-hones, not only Shun, Global and MAC, but plenty who don't give a darn about sales to the west -- Masamoto for instance.
I have never, not once, NOT EVER, talked to anyone who claims to have wrecked his or her own Japanese knife by steeling. What "empirical" stories there are, are always about other people.
Korin has seen a lot of knives which have been damaged by bad steeling. I don't usually do "motive," but maybe that's the reason they're categorically negative. With the greatest respect for their in-house sharpener, and with respect for whatever their reasoning is: They are wrong. And yes, it's really that simple.
You don't have to steel, but what's your alternative? Are you going to keep a couple of stones in the bucket, ready to go every time you ding an edge on the board, every third chicken you break, and before every other night you cook? If you do, you'll eat through your knives and stones PDQ.
One thing about Japanese manufactured knives, because of the (typically) higher hardness of their blade alloys, they tend to need less steeling than western made knives of similar geometry. But they are thin, they do wave, and consequently still need truing. For most of them the right steel is the best and most efficient way to do it.
BDL
* boar_d_laze
*
* 5,524 Posts. Joined 2/2008
* Location: Monrovia, CA
*
Former Chef
Yank,
'm going to avoid the term "hone," because it's ambiguous. You should steel. Not to sharpen, but to maintain the edge. Maybe that's what Chef Aaland meant. If it isn't, he may be right but he's in the vast minority. Anyway...
Use a steel to straighten any slight bending of the edge coming with use. Assuming you want some longevity on your edge, the best regimen is to use a "smooth" or "glass smooth" steel the first few days after you've sharpened, then switch to a fine or extra-fine steel to for the next few days after the smooth steel stops working as well. The fine adds a little "scratch" to the edge so it bites through things it will no longer "fall" through. Tomato skins, for instance. As a practical matter, this means you'll add a slight slice action to your initial stroke on these things. I'm sure you're familiar with the feeling of a blade that's still too sharp to sharpen.
Forschner makes decent fine and smooth steels for a decent price. Sounds like Forschner, doesn't it? But they don't really match the quality of your knives. Pfui!
I know of three really good combination steels. One is the Dickoron "Combi" made by F. Dick. It's a beauty, but around $100. The other two are made by HandAmerica: their (a) steel, and (b) borosilicate "glass" combination rods. You can find them at Japanese Knife Sharpening, Japanese Knife Sharpening The glass is probably the best performer of all three, but requires some babying. If price matters, get the HandAmerica steel. If price doesn't matter Dickoron just screams, "The Best."
As to ceramic itself, a number of materials are suitable and modern ceramics are among them by virtue of their hardness. The trick is finding the right textures.
That having been said, I'd certainly ask around the Knife area at Foodie Forums and at the Knife Forum itself. There are some guys there who seriously know their onions. Also, I'd probably email Koki at JCK and ask him which steels he recommends for your particular knives. I think Masamoto makes some really good ones.
It seems like the majority of Japanese knife users in this country think water stones make the best sharpening system for Japanese knives; and indeed, they're the traditional Japanese sharpening agent. I don't disagree that there's nothing better, but think other "uber" sharpening systems work as well. To my mind every system around has its strengths and flaws, it depends which you find least irritating.
Hope this helps,
BDL
http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/58377/do-you-steel-japanese-knives
