Steels which can be heat treated together?

[Varga Knives]

I am wondering if anybody has ever seen a list on this? I have no immediate plans to start doing my own heat treating and plan to use Peter's as my go-to source. My only problem is trying to make the most of their progressive pricing structure ($25 each for blades one through four and $100 total for the first 20 twenty blades). Their caveat is that the steels to be batched together need to be able to be heat treated together. In speaking with Brad a few times he basically says that he will work with a maker who is sending in different steels to keep the price down. To keep it simple on my end, however, I would like to know what steels I can try to finish up together and send in as one batch. Currently I am working in Elmax and I think he said that 3V, M4 and S90 and maybe M390 can also be sent in as they require the same temp. Don't quote me on that but I think those were the steels he mentioned. Knowing the answer would help influence my next steel order, too. If I was on the fence between buying a few different steels for the kitchen, let's say, and knew that two in particular could be batched together then it would be a no brainer.

Maybe I'll just ask Brad again next time I speak with him but it really seemed as though he was contemplating the answer and nothing was written down. Probably simple stuff for most of you heat treaters out there but I have no clue.

Thanks!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The basic separation for them is Stainless vs carbon steel. There are a few that fall in their own space, like A-2 and D-2. These can often be sent with other air hardening steel. Brad will usually take care of you with the best price he can charge.

Separate all the carbon Damascus, 1095, 5160, 1084,52100, O-1, etc into one bundle, and the CPM-154, CPM-S35Vn, 440C, AEBL, elmax, and similar steels into a second bundle. The bigger the total batch, the easier it is for Brad to give you a low price bulk rate.

 

[zealot]

Noob question~!! Not trying to derail, but why is Peter's so much more than say Texas or Pacific? I'm sure there is a good reason, but I'm just not finding it in my searches. thx

 

[james terrio]

I won't hazard a guess on HT'ing different steels at the same time, because even very similar steels can be hardened and tempered at different temperatures for different properties like toughness and corrosion resistance, even when going for the same final hardness. Your best bet is to decide what you need and talk to Brad again.

Definitely, the more blades you send in, the less expensive it gets.

Noob question~!! Not trying to derail, but why is Peter's so much more than say Texas or Pacific? I'm sure there is a good reason, but I'm just not finding it in my searches. thx

They're actually quite a bit cheaper, unless you're only sending in a couple blades. Peter's pricing includes complete tempering, cryo treatment and Rockwell testing of each blade, and it generally comes out to about $9/blade or less including return shipping. Read the fine print... TKS charges $5/blade to harden and temper once, $4/blade to cryo, $4/blade for second temper, and a minimum of $10 extra in shipping. They won't even touch oil-hardening steels.

There's also the fact that with Peters', you're dealing with one of the most respected heat-treaters in the cutlery business (Brad Stallsmith). I have no idea who's running the shop at TKS or other places.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

As well as coming back dead straight. I believe he does them in groupings as per temperature. The carbon steels may start at 1500F and then drop to 1475F for the next batch, The stainless steels are always spot on, so I don't know what he does with 1900 vs 1950 austenitization temps. It would not surprise me if he does them in several full HT runs.That is why I send them to him....he knows what he is doing.

 

[james terrio]

It would not surprise me if he does them in several full HT runs. That is why I send them to him....he knows what he is doing.

The last time I sent in Elmax blades, he asked me if I minded waiting a couple extra days until he could put them in with someone else's Elmax, who wanted the same properties I did. (they have BIG ovens, so I'm sure they prefer to do bigger batches when practical). Was it worth the wait? Absolutely :thumbup: When in doubt, give Brad a call. He's friendly as well as extremely knowledgeable.

As well as coming back dead straight.

Excellent point. I've had exactly one blade come back with a bit of wiggle along the edge. It was nothing that couldn't be finish-sanded/sharpened out. And I grind most of my blades very thin at the edge (and usually at the tip, too) pre-HT.

 

[Horsewright]

Brad is a great guy and does great work. If you work in batches he is extremely reasonable in price too. I recently sent him a large batch (AEBL) and then sat down and figured things out. I do my own 1084 and HC Damascus. I am really rethinking that whole deal. Not counting consumables, just time, it costs me $14 a blade working in groups. My last batch with Brad came in at under $5 a blade not counting return shipping. Plus no frustration chasing warp. No brainer.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I do the same now. Most batches are about 50 blades and a mix of carbon and stainless, with damascus in both groups. I spend less than $5 a blade and get them back fairly fast.
When doing a hamon, or when I want to HT a blade or two, or when a friend does not want to wait for a batch to go out, I fire up the forge or turn on the Paragon.......but if I can wait, Brad does it for me.