Sticker shock an annoying trend.

[Will Batayte]

More often then not lately I see big name companies giving us less and less for more and more. Just recently I saw the spydie rubicon and got excited. Great looking knife and a flipper! I was all set to buy it then I saw the price and did a double take. I assumed that at the very least it would be a TI framelock. Nope liner lock. So what's the deal how can a liner lock justify $319 on one of the big knife sites. Is there something special I'm missing or what? Even the TI framelocks are becoming ridiculous. Quite honestly I believe knife companies are seeing mid tech makers like brous and medford getting away with big prices and they're just jacking up their own because they feel they can. Meanwhile I see companies like boker and Kizer putting out ti framelocks that are 90% of the knife and 1/3 the cost. With more Chinese manufacturers being able to produce quality I think this ubble is bound to pop. Keep in mind I'm talking about original Chinese designs. Not the damn clones. But what do you guys think? personally I feel like companies are getting pretty greedy and will continue to unless we decide to vote with our Wallets and say enough is enough. Production knives and even midterms are not customs and shouldn't command these kind of prices. I'm very willing to spend the cash if I can see where it's going. But I just don't see it on these ultra expensive production knives. Thoughts?

 

[chickenfried]

I see plenty of variety available. You can find good inexpensive knives from the big guys. As for their higher end offerings. If the knives aren't worth the price It's a self correcting problem

 

[stabman]

If you think knives are bad, look at food prices.
Many food items have doubled in price over a few years...and I cannot just stop eating for a few months to save the cash.

Knife prices aren't really a big issue for me, and in many cases are staying about the same for many models.

 

[Akcir]

Someone will say it, so I will first. "Piss on it, I'll just buy a new pistol instead. "

 

[drrickso]

I admit, I don't see the reasoning behind some of the pricing aside from simple supply and demand... luckily if your actively looking for sales and coupons you could usually find a deal on anything you're looking for- IF you're patient. And of course there's buying second hand to save on cost- IF you're careful.

I've held or owned some of the more sought after knives, and while I can often feel the difference in quality, I still find it hard to imagine that the differences are worth the mark ups vs the competition.

As far as Brous in particular, I'd like to get one at some point just to have something different, but I can't justify paying the prices being asked for a D2 blade with limited everyday functionality for me.

Thoughts on other expensive non-custom brands: Hinderer's are fantastic knives, but the markups over MSRP at retail and even second hand are absurd. At least Striders (while equally expensive new) usually have a "driving off the lot" depreciation, so you can at least save some cash second hand there, but with counterfeiting you have to be careful.

 

[jackknife]

Someone will say it, so I will first. "Piss on it, I'll just buy a new pistol instead. "

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

As long as they have customers willing to spend the money, they will keep hiking the prices to see how far they can go. Just like the oil companies.

 

[stabman]

Someone will say it, so I will first. "Piss on it, I'll just buy a new pistol instead. "

I'm the other way around.
I traded a .38 that had some issues for a new Spyderco Police. :thumbup:

$500 for a new gun? Screw that...I could get a nice knife for that money!

 

[daizee]

premium steel: check
premium handle material: check
fantastic design: check
quality of execution: hard to say without handling
cost of labor: HUH?? (Taiwan)

Many of the premium blades are made in the USA, and you will pay for US labor to get them. This will cost more. They are a luxury item, and the market will support a certain amount of luxury markup. There's always a top-end market, and it always gets a bit of attention, but the marginal cost almost always outweighs the marginal utility. However there is enough demand for the limited production to keep the producers in the business. This is the same in any field. You're not only buying utility, you're also buying exclusivity.

 

[Czechmate]

I'm the other way around.
I traded a .38 that had some issues for a new Spyderco Police. :thumbup:

$500 for a new gun? Screw that...I could get a nice knife for that money!

Nice reverse logic. :thumbup: I like it.

I've found it's important to do some research prior to a knife purchase as it can reveal some shocking prices differences between sources such as a bricks and mortar store, Fleabay and here... Sure leaves me shaking my head sometimes.

Check out Instagram if you want to see price gouging; crazy what some folks are asking even for just a modded production knife like twice it's actually value LOL.

 

[goldie]

The brous division is a great knife, I think its worth 300.00,but his latest offerings are almost twice that for no reason. materials have not changed.the t4 was a good deal at 250 or so, why is the carbon fiber one double?theres no way g10 to carbon fiber should double the price.I have a shirogorov tabargan, paid 550 lightly carried. to me its still to much,but I like it enough to keep it,and 550 is a "bargain" for cronidor 30/blackblue g10.Their model 95 is way way overpriced.its almost 1200 new,3 times what they should be. theres at least 3 dealers who sell them,so the supply and demand nonsense is done.In the last 2-3 years all these makers came out with ti framelocks,like Robertson,curtiss,Medford,all great knives,but all more than they should be.I think Kizer and Reate are the way to go right now.Similar materials and quality for 2/3rd's less than makers listed above. Im done spending big money on these knives,unless I see a bargain in the exchange or online somewhere,ive got better things to spend 600+ on a knife unless its something real special.

 

[shinyedges]

I agree with jackknife, as long as people pay ridiculous prices they'll keep raising it see what they can get. Its called greed.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

As long as they have customers willing to spend the money, they will keep hiking the prices to see how far they can go. Just like the oil companies.

 

[jrawk]

So I believe the Rubicon is a TI liner lock, and the TI liners are pretty thick. The lock side liner is thick enough to warrant the machined area at the bend point in order for it to function comfortably.

Personally, as a lefty, this configuration is highly desirable as the scale overtop the lock bar protects my left hand from applying opposite pressure to it when i'm deploying the blade with the flipper. Just my $0.02. That said, I neither own one or plan to own one since the clip is not reversible. :grumpy:

 

[dcmartin]

I really don't know how Taichung achieves such an impeccable fit and finish. The Rubicon is near dead on perfect, and it is very very close to Peter Carey's original Rubicon design and execution. The only difference is the 154 on the Carey original and not S30v... Oh and his custom Rubicon in G-10 commands $1150. If you added sculpted CF I'm sure that would bump it up at least $100. This particular model (the Spyderco) isn't just a good looker but the detent, flipping action and centering are bang on. A good design that functions well isn't going to be cheap. I've taken mine apart and reassembled it several times with ZERO tuning... Each time it centers right up and works perfectly. Believe me that says something when a $300 production knife goes back easier than my Sebenza Lol.

You ask "How could a liner lock justify a $319 price" Are you thinking that it should be less expensive just because it's a Taichung knife or because it's a liner lock and not a frame lock?
Take a look at some of the custom makers who use the liner lock, Kirby Lambert, John W Smith, Andre Thorburn... and a bunch of others. Their prices easily $500 to $1000 on the low end and they all use the liner lock. I don't think the liner lock is a step down at all. I don't think having a frame lock necessarily makes it more expensive or desirable or even better functioning (unless you like frame locks) I think it's just a nice aesthetic. One would think, "Well, with a lock bar that thick how can the lock fail?" I think the geometry and seating has more to do with lock bar failure than the lock bar itself. A big thick lock bar is of zero help if it slips. As far as the flipping action goes... It's buttery smooth

I think that the price comes from the aesthetics and function and of course how big the name attached to it is. If you can't afford a $1200 Peter Carey original (and that's the low end), here's a collab for $300. With a higher end production company and a very well know and sought after maker, you can bet the prices will be slightly higher for a collaboration. If Kershaw made it, they would be $40 and not to knock Kershaw / Kai but at that price point you wouldn't be getting the same as Spyderco. Again, I love my steel and G-10 Kershaws but you can't compare 8cr3mov and steel to S30V and Ti.

So to sum it up this particular Spyderco is just a hair shy of custom quality and way on the upper end production quality... I think it's a bargain in neighborhood of $300. I would even go as far to say, It's a high end production that's deep in Mid Tech country.

In all honesty, if I were to rate my full customs as a "10" I would have to rate the Rubicon a solid 8.5 to 9. If they would have put a Sculpted Ti pocket clip and a blade steel like CTS-XHP or M390 It would have a solid 10. (comparing it to another custom liner lock)

But on the plus side, once the secondary market becomes saturated with them.... They will definitely be cheaper.

 

[MatthewSB]

I assumed that at the very least it would be a TI framelock. Nope liner lock. So what's the deal how can a liner lock justify $319 on one of the big knife sites. Is there something special I'm missing or what?

A framelock is a linerlock, it just doesn't have a scale on one side. I'd argue that makes the linerlock worth more than a framelock.

But what do you guys think?

If I don't think a knife is worth the price, I just don't buy it.

I haven't bought a benchmade since MAP enforcement because I don't think their designs are worth what they cost, but I have bought several ZT knives even though they're enforcing MAP because I believe that ZTs are worth the price.

Edited to Add:

So to sum it up this particular Spyderco is just a hair shy of custom quality and way on the upper end production quality... I think it's a bargain in neighborhood of $300. I would even go as far to say, It's a high end production that's deep in Mid Tech country.

I've said the same about the Al Mar SERE 2000s that I've handled. Taichung Spydercos, and many of the Japanese models, are definitely incredible as well.

I think that people focus too much on features and not enough on fit and finish and time spent designing and building a quality product. I'd rather pay $200 for a 154CM Emerson with a brilliant design and a linerlock, than $200 for a knife with super steel and premium features but with a mediocre design.

 

[chickenfried]

:apthy:

I'd rather pay $200 for a 154CM Emerson with a brilliant design and a linerlock, than $200 for a knife with super steel and premium features but with a mediocre design.

 

[Krissig12]

I think it's actually the opposite of what you are describing.....

Companies are really starting to step up in terms of quality, and blurring the lines between midtechs and productions. Just look at ZT in recent years. A lot of their stuff is on par with mid techs in terms of quality and design, but just because they're production knives most people don't want to pay midtech prices for them.
So what you're seeing now is companies saying "Screw that! We're making a great product, so you're going to have to pay for it."

And look at some of Spydercos latest offerings. I'm sorry, but you can't claim that they're charging too much when they give you a knife in freakin s110v for a little over the hundred dollar mark.....
As for their Taiwanese knives, they are some of the most perfect constructed production knives on the market, and the vast majority don't break 200 bucks. Its irrelevant that labor isn't as expensive in Taiwan...... All that matters is that the end products are amazing. It's like the argument over customs that are 100% CNC'd. In the end, they're still absolutely perfect knives. Just made differently

You should be paying for the KNIVES. Not rewarding the maker for being able to do something the old fashioned way.....

 

[marcinek]

The brous division is a great knife, I think its worth 300.00,but his latest offerings are almost twice that for no reason.

There is a reason. (Albeit, to me, an inexplicable one.) The reason is because people will pay it.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I have bee saying this for a long time. I blame current market trends. Companies are seeing things like brous and medford, which lets face it arent all that complicated and these guys making a killing and figuring they must be giving things away. I have started voting with my wallet which means I havent been buying anything from the big companies and if I do its a cheapy. What bothers me the most is that I feel the fit and finish of many companies has actually gone down in recent years. And then I see guys throwing around BS terms saying that such and such brand is now producing at a mid tech level of quality and fit & finish. Really? My how standards have lowered. Ive said it before and I will say it again. Im simply sick of the idea that a custom knife means "get double thick water jet parts back from outsourced heat treat, toss in tumbler, pay my kids or kids friends to assemble and repeat." The production companies are seeing this trend and following suit. Now as for the carrey flipper from spyderco? $300 is a bit steep but I said that about the southard and ate crow when I saw how well it was made. I will have to handle one before passing judgement. But compared to some other knives? Its a bargain on paper by comparison.

 

[daizee]

You should be paying for the KNIVES. Not rewarding the maker for being able to do something the old fashioned way.....

I disagree.
If company X makes an awesome knife in country Y with labor=$40/hr, and it's AWESOME, then I expect to pay a hefty price if I want it enough.

If company X then moves production to country Z with labor=$5/hr, and it's STILL AWESOME, then I expect to also reap the benefit of off-shoring in the form of lower retail prices - especially if I live in country Y and am competing in that same labor market.

It's not about the 'old fashioned way', it's about how your dollars are spread throughout the supply chain.

And I agree that Spyderco's quality is stupid good for the price, throughout the product line. Though I definitely prefer the Japanese and USA made products over the Taiwan plant *from what I've seen*. But they adjust their prices for the designer, materials, and country of origin (labor cost).

 

[goldie]

^ .Thats what turned me off of Beggs knives. That show he had on discovery showed some of the people involved in the assembly or making of the knives,like the brothers. Lighting things on fire,acting like an idiot,and clowing around like morons.try doing that in Chris Reeves shop, see how long you last.Charging 800.00 for a knife with a bead blast finished blade,scales that are 65% made of g10 with no liners,and 1/4" dull edge by the finger choil.Bravo,theres a knife for the ages..