Stigma - hand sharpeners vs system users

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kvanpacker

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Jun 3, 2016
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Is there a stigma that exist between those that are hand sharpeners vs those of us that can't won't or don't develop those skills and use a system like wicked edge, edge pro, lansky etc...

I'm not saying there is or isn't as I haven't run into that many sharpening fanatics

It's like sal has said paraphrasing "there are knife people (small subset of pop) then steel people and even smaller group edge fanatics"

So besides message boards the chances of running into genuine knife steel and edge people are somewhat remote
 
I think people that are good at freehand sharpening might look down their noses at people that use guided systems. I think people that buy used knives are really turned off by knives with freehand-sharpened edges.

I bought a used knife with a freehand edge and it had a very sharp polished edge but behind the edge there were some serious scratches that looked like a person that was doing a lot of drinking tried the sharpen the knife on a concrete curb. Well it was a used knife and has a good edge, and a user for me, so I overlook the scratches. Someone that wanted to buy a knife as a safe queen or to eventually flip would not be happy with it.
 
I think its more of a case of "well I don't do it that way" than anything else. There are those of use who have a "you do you" attitude, and those who have a "My way or you are literally hitler" (okay maybe not quite, but you get my meaning) so its not limited to sharpening. It can be lockup percentage, centering, "smoothness" all that sort of thing. I free-hand, and I don't like scratches on my blades, but they do happen, just like I don't like tape gunk, or anything like that, its a tool, it gets used.

I think the main thing is looking at how you do things, and deciding how far you want to push it yourself, but then also in your responses being okay with someone else's choices. I heard a good phrase the other day, "We all share the same words, but our language is individual"
 
kvanpacker said:
So besides message boards the chances of running into genuine knife steel and edge people are somewhat remote
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It's rare to come across people who even can readily identify a sharp knife.


I don't know about a stigma, but there is certainly a reaction/ counter reaction when someone comes on the forum and asks what they should get to sharpen their tools. I am in the "learn to freehand" camp but I don't look down on anyone who uses a guided system. I do not much care for claims that a guided system produces superior edges, freehand is impossible to become proficient, there is no comparison etc etc... This is where the "debate" kicks off.

Personally, my freehand edges often look better than my guided or powered ones, admittedly that's with a lot of practice.
 
"It's rare to come across people who even can readily identify a sharp knife."
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This is true, I'm certain of it. At one time, not very long ago, I WAS one of those people. :D

I initially used guided systems when I started 'getting serious' about learning to sharpen my knives. In all seriousness, I was stunned to see how sharp a properly apexed edge could be; I'd never seen anything like it. I'd previously assumed a typically-seen factory edge (:yawn:) was about as sharp as I'd ever see on my own knives, and struggled just to maintain them at that level. The guided system demonstrated to me what can be possible and what has to be done to get there, i.e., consistent angle control at the apex, looking for the burr, and recognizing what the burr means when you see it. Being that it was a guided system teaching me that important lesson, I'd be a hypocrite for looking down upon anyone using them. I don't, and I won't.

Since finally growing out of my guided systems and diving entirely into freehand sharpening, I've progressed further; my freehand edges now are sharper than most anything I created on the guided systems, and (ironically) more intuitively repeatable. None of that would've happened for me, in all likelihood, had I not tried a guided system in the first place. So, I'm in the camp with the 'use what works for you' crowd, and I won't judge anyone either way, if it gets the job done. :thumbup:


David
 
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I have not really noticed any particular level of condescension from free-hand sharpeners towards those who use systems. When new sharpeners are asking how to learn to sharpen, they almost always want to spend as little money as possible. So people often recommend learning how to free-hand, since you can get started fairly cheaply.

Very few people come along and say "I want to pay once, cry once, and get a great system where I don't need to learn to free-hand, and have a budget of $600 to spend up front." If they did, you would see a lot more recommendations for a Wicked Edge or Edge Pro. Some people would still try to recommend them to try out free-handing, of course, but from what I have seen it usually comes from a motivation to save them some money.

Though depending on how much you get into it, you can spend as much money on an array of bench stones, flattening plates, strops and compounds as you can on a guided system. It just tends to be a more gradual process. It's very hard to determine in advance which is the right approach for someone (or for yourself).

As long as someone is getting the edges they want or need on their tools, whatever methods they use to create them are fine with me, including sending them off to a professional sharpener who does good work. The key is to have a sharpening plan that works for whatever edged tools you use. Otherwise, you are going to end up with dull tools and no idea what to do about it.
 
I started with clamping systems, then the Sharpmaker, then mouse-pad + sandpaper, then freehand, and now I'm back to a clamped system. I also worked stropping in there at some point.

It wasn't until I learned freehand that I really started to learn what it means to create a very sharp edge. Eventually, I abandoned freehand sharpening and have gone back to a clamped system (Hapstone V6), I just find it a more enjoyable sharpening experience. I like tinkering with the mechanics of the sharpener. But the lessons I learned while freehanding have given me the ability to create much sharper edges with my current system.

And yeah, outside of these forums I've not met another person who knows how to sharpen anything or that could even identify a quality knife from a gas-station knife.
 
I find it interesting that the last 2 posts "claim" to never speak down on guided sharpening, but are ended with claims that their own freehand sharpening is now better than they could with a guided system. That is because they put more time and effort into freehand sharpening. Your best edges will typically come from the one you put the effort into. Although there are those who sometimes have a natural ability with one system over the other. And to the previous members, please do not be offended by what I said. That was not my purpose. Just pointing out how this is very often how we think. In my case, I learned freehand first. But I excelled when I moved to guided- To the point I have designed and built my own sharpener. I always appreciated being able to freehand sharpen though. Unfortunately I no longer have the option, as an accident in 2014 resulted in my left arm/hand being paralyzed. And though I have become very skilled at making custom knives, building tooling(like the sharpener), building firearms, reloading, etc., freehand sharpening with one hand is one thing out of my reach. But I am ok with that, as I would put my edges up against any. (I'm not saying mine are "better". Just that I would not feel over matched). I have a deep admiration for free hand sharpened edges. They are beautiful, and each one has its own character. Much like my custom made knives, no two are the same. Each freehand Edge is unique. And that is very cool. Guided sharpening, on the other hand, is meticulous, precise & hard lined. Repeatable, no matter the steel. Much easier to learn(for most). I don't concentrate so much, on freehand, vs guided sharpening so much. Rather, I look at the sharpening media being used. IMHO, water stones always win. Given the same sharpening media, I believe either method to be equally worthy. It's a matter of preference.
 
"I find it interesting that the last 2 posts "claim" to never speak down on guided sharpening, but are ended with claims that their own freehand sharpening is now better than they could with a guided system. That is because they put more time and effort into freehand sharpening. "
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Speaking for myself, I'll Have to resoundingly disagree, on the assumption of putting more effort into freehand, than with the guided method. The whole reason I improved in my own skills, is because I spent so much time & effort learning the basics with the guided system. I hadn't realized at the time, my hands were learning the feel for flush contact while using the guides. So, when I finally worked up the nerve to put the guide away, I was able to accomplish a lot more than I'd previously assumed.

This isn't to say I'm not putting the effort into freehand to get better results; but it's more about it being an easier and more productive effort now. As I mentioned before, it's because freehand has become more intuitive for me, which lends itself naturally to further, more focused improvement and bigger gains in results. Much easier to immediately recognize where improvement is needed and how to specifically tweak things to make it happen.

I'll reiterate, once again: no judgement from me. It's just that each individual will learn via a different path, and the 'spark' will come from different directions, in different ways. For me, that was with the guides initially, after which I was on my way.


David
 
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The truest thing said so far is that most people tend to not even know what a sharp knife is.

I am fully guilty of being a jerk and having biases about my philosophies. Thats why they are mine. Partial character flaw, partial simple human nature.

Knife users that can't identify a sharp blade, or even keep their blades sharp are a complete paradox to me. I find the concept idiotic.

As for the freehand stigma? Absolutely it's there.

Here's my own particular reason: in order to make ANY system work, the basics of sharpening are still needed So why shackle oneself to an expensive crutch, when total freedom is just another couple steps away?

That's my perceived logic, dictating my own philosophy. But I also get there are numerous facets to every opinion and person. Examples being maybe they enjoy the fine equipment of a using a KME system, or they have shaky hands. . .

I won't look down on any PERSON because of the way they do something (unless it's driving lol). But I will totally admit to looking down on practices and opinions that go against my own perceived logic. That's kinda what we as humans are programmed to do.

In other words, I'll choose a certain way because it makes sense to me. So OF COURSE, I'm going to naturally think ways that don't make sense are inferior. Because they don't follow my particular logic.

I will add that I do find it difficult to respect someone who can't even form their own reasons for doing something tho. But that's e whole different thing.

Contrary to popular belief, having stigma and bias is actually OK! That's the nice thing about diversity.

The last piece I'll add in conclusion is reflected in nearly every thread on this forum: I don't think stigma or bias is a problem. I think people taking themselves too seriously is.

Too much ego leads to too much butthurt. Life is really too short to invest oneself in the opinions of others. Especially strangers you'll never actually meet.

So ultimately, who cares? There's always gonna be someone who doesn't like how you do or say something. Right now, someone is already scowling at something I just wrote here.

That's fine because even though I know my opinion really doesn't matter, someone who lets what I say bother them obviously doesn't know that.

That would be their problem, not mine!
😉
 
If you want to see system-bashing, just start a thread on a system.
Like ants to a spilled coke, they will appear.
Odd, really.
 
Both methods have their merits. IMO guided systems are good for a quick touch up just to get through the day if you're a guy like me who doesn't sharpen my blade everyday like it's a religion (not that I don't treat the act of free handing religiously). But I also freehand because it's a damn good skill to have under your belt plus I only have a couple of stones at home and some oil. It also makes stroping a piece of cake.

All that being said, if I can get my meat hooks on my father-in-laws KME sharpening system I'll do that in a heartbeat and sharpen every damn blade in the house short of the butter knives.
 
Knicked Digits said:
Both methods have their merits. IMO guided systems are good for a quick touch up just to get through the day if you're a guy like me who doesn't sharpen my blade everyday like it's a religion (not that I don't treat the act of free handing religiously). But I also freehand because it's a damn good skill to have under your belt plus I only have a couple of stones at home and some oil. It also makes stroping a piece of cake.

All that being said, if I can get my meat hooks on my father-in-laws KME sharpening system I'll do that in a heartbeat and sharpen every damn blade in the house short of the butter knives.
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I'm confused?? You just said that guided sharpening is only useful for "quick touch-ups", but then you go into how you would LOVE the KME and use it non stop on every knife you could! The KME IS a guided sharpener. It's actually quite inferior to the Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, Hapstone, etc. It is far overpriced for how cheaply it is built. That being said, it will still do a great job on any knife. As I said in my first post, the secret lies in the sharpening media... The stones. So I'm not sure why you would want the KME for All of your sharpening needs, but only trust say, the Hapstone V6 for only "quick touch-ups"??
 
I can & do sharpen freehand. I have a set of arkansas stones I bought 40 years ago, when knives shipped from the factory in a state opposite to "sharp." The only method, back then, for a good knife was freehand. In fact, I am going to save my pennies and purchase a black arkansas stone from Dans.

I don't look down on folks who use a guided sharpening system. I also have, and enjoy using, a sharpmaker. I would love to have a top end Wicked Edge or Hapstoe or Edge Pro. Wish I could afford those!

However, I can be fairly obtuse and perhaps I give off the aura of putting down guided system users. Not my intent, at all.
 
i dont think you should be using a hand sharpener like this for good results. if thats what your talking about.
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Cross stick typr sharpeners are crap, there is always an untouched part of the blade at the start and end. Most of the good guided systems are that, guided, and most cost a pretty penny; people will spend a lot on knives but balk at spending $100-$300 on a guided system. Most cheaper methods (aside from quality stones) have something lacking.
 
Like “Obsessed with Edges” I also learned how to get a sharp edge with a system. In fact I think they are a great way to learn to sharpen as you don’t blame holding an angle for the reason you’re not getting a knife sharp. It’s a great way to learn. Now if you are someone who is serious enough to spend a couple hundred bucks on a system to get a sharp edge I can almost guarantee you will at some point learn to free hand sharpen. So it’s all good. Truthfully if there is anyone looking down on a sharpening method it is the system guys trashing other systems more than the free hand vs system guys. Btw if I could only have one way to sharpen and had to get rid of all the others it would be a belt sander.
 
DavidHoback said:
...The KME IS a guided sharpener. It's actually quite inferior to the Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, Hapstone, etc. It is far overpriced for how cheaply it is built...
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Really? In my opinion, that is totally inaccurate information.
 
I have a little bit of a different opinion here with comes from different experiences. I've never been a great free hand sharpener, and part of that is medical. For example I can MiG weld and stick weld, but can't TiG for the same reasons. I can only steady one of my hands with the brace of the other. So for me, unlike most, I decided that if I was going to start buying expensive knives, I was going to need a way to sharpen them. For $400-$500 (this is with a few extras as the base system is now $325 and includes the Gen2 arms)I hopped on the WE bandwagon and was kind of surprised at the "system bashing" as was mentioned above. Like was already mentioned, people scoff at a $400 sharpening system, but not the 15th $400 CRK in their "EDC Rotation" which they have no ability to sharpen themselves and if they want sharp have to send it off to have done, incurring even more cost.

I view my guided system as a tool. I wish I felt I was able to talk more about my knife related tool on this very forum, but those threads don't typically end well. While I also agree that learning to free hand sharpen is a great thing to know, I see so many new folks come to this forum and ask the "freehand vs guided system" question and the post is instantly filled with "learn to freehand". While good intended advice, it can also have the effect of pushing people out of the hobby or helping to create those who can't sharpen their own. If those posts were worded more like "I think learning to freehand sharpen is a great skill to have and would recommend it, but if you want to try a guided system I've had good luck learning on/using X/Y/Z" it would be a lot more helpful.

As was already mentioned, learning to freehand sharpen from a totally green novice takes a great amount of time, patience and some natural skill. In the meantime are we really helping folks asking for advice when the only answers they get that don't end in a flame war are "learn to free hand"? So I do think there is a stigma and a bit of looking down your nose from a lot of folks who do and can freehand and I'd hope some of those folks who read this actually consider for a second that a person can actually do and have both. Like many of you have said. Learn the basics on a guided system, then learn to freehand.
 
^^What he said^^
I have many times shaken my head when novices are told here to "...learn to freehand." Most have probably tried w/o success and/or have nobody to teach them. I tried for years. Then I bought the Lansky system and had sharp edges the first night for the first time ever. I have the better systems now. I can freehand to a decent degree, but no match for the Wicked Edge or Edge Pro.

I agree and hope people will reconsider their advice to simply "... learn to freehand."
 
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